Tukwila Voters Approve Minimum Wage Increase in Landslide Victory

Katie Wilson of the Transit Riders Union details Tukwila's successful minimum wage hike initiative, from coalition building to door-to-door canvassing and public outreach that secured 82% voter approval.

Tukwila Voters Approve Minimum Wage Increase in Landslide Victory

In a resounding victory for workers' rights advocates, voters in the city of Tukwila recently approved the Raise the Wage Tukwila initiative, which will raise the minimum wage to match that of neighboring cities SeaTac and Seattle. The initiative, which passed with an overwhelming 82% of the vote, was the result of a months-long campaign led by a coalition of community and labor organizations, including the Transit Riders Union.

Katie Wilson, a leader of the Transit Riders Union and a key organizer of the Raise the Wage Tukwila campaign, attributes the success of the initiative to the coalition's inclusive and community-driven approach. "We basically talked to - on the one hand - policy experts, people who worked on minimum wage and other labor standards campaigns in Seattle and other places, even around the country. And we did a lot of talking to workers at Southcenter Mall. We did a couple of surveys where we had about 100 workers responding to survey questions about the issues that they face at work," Wilson explained.

The final initiative, which will phase in the wage increase over several years while providing flexibility for small businesses, was carefully crafted to balance the needs of workers and employers. Wilson noted, "We also did some door knocking just to Tukwila residents to take people's temperature on how they felt about something like this. And so through all that - and then I guess outreach to local businesses was an important part of that too - so we talked to, we would just walk into pretty much any local Tukwila business that we could find and try to talk to the owner about what they thought about this."

Once the initiative qualified for the ballot, the coalition shifted its focus to voter outreach and education. "We knocked on every - knocking all registered voters' doors in the fall and only taking out doors where, during the signature gathering, someone had refused to talk to us or didn't want to be bothered. So we - yeah, which was a very small minority of people. We really just ended up knocking everyone," Wilson said.

Wilson credits the success to the coalition's grassroots approach and the tireless efforts of volunteers and organizers, stating, "I think part of the great thing about doing an initiative is that when you're out gathering signatures, you're also talking to the same people whose votes you're going to need in the fall. And so we were definitely - yeah, obviously talking to people about why this was important and also asking them questions like - do you work in Tukwila? Do you know anyone who will benefit from a minimum wage increase?"

Looking ahead, the coalition plans to continue organizing in Tukwila around other issues affecting working families, such as affordable housing and tenant protections. They also hope to work with the city to ensure smooth implementation of the minimum wage increase and to educate workers about their rights under the new law. "We're having - actually tonight, we're having a meeting with some Tukwila renters to talk about what it might look like to push for stronger renter protections in Tukwila," Wilson shared.

About the Guest

Katie Wilson

Katie Wilson is the general secretary of the Transit Riders Union and was the campaign coordinator for Raise the Wage Tukwila.

Find Katie Wilson on Twitter/X at @WilsonKatieB and the Transit Riders Union at @SeattleTRU.

Podcast Transcript

[00:00:00] Crystal Fincher: Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm Crystal Fincher, and I'm a political consultant and your host. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington State through the lens of those doing the work with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening, and what you can do about it. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes.

So today, I'm very excited to be welcoming back to the program, Katie Wilson of the Transit Riders Union. Welcome.

[00:00:46] Katie Wilson: Thank you, Crystal.

[00:00:47] Crystal Fincher: I am very excited to talk about the Raise the Wage Tukwila initiative, which was wildly successful and you played a really big role in. So I think just to start off - just recapping what the initiative was aiming to do.

[00:01:07] Katie Wilson: Sure. So Raise the Wage Tukwila basically set out to, as the name suggests, raise the minimum wage in the City of Tukwila. And toward the beginning of this year, we did a lot of outreach to workers, to local businesses, to residents, to community organizations to put together our measure. And we decided to basically try to bring Tukwila's minimum wage up to more or less match the minimum wages in the neighboring cities of SeaTac and Seattle.

[00:01:40] Crystal Fincher: Makes sense. And so when you were going about - I guess - the planning for this, the idea for this, how did this begin?

[00:01:49] Katie Wilson: So the Transit Riders Union, which is the organization that I work with and for - we started thinking about something like this campaign in the middle of last year. And at that point, we were doing a lot of work on renter protections with another coalition called Stay Housed, Stay Healthy. And as part of that work, we were trying to get cities all around the county to do more to protect renters, both with emergency protections and permanent protections. And that really got us thinking about what it would look like to do some deeper organizing in South King County. And so we began talking to lots of ally organizations and doing some outreach - and eventually settled on this idea of doing an initiative in the City of Tukwila.

And the City of Tukwila is a really interesting place. It's a small city - it only has about maybe 20, a little over 20,000 residents. But it's a really big job center - so you have the Southcenter Mall down there and all of the retail jobs around there - so a lot of low wage workers are basically commuting from all over South King County and beyond to work at jobs in Tukwila. And so - we also thought that because Tukwila is nestled in between SeaTac and Seattle, it made a lot of sense to propose raising the minimum wage up to parity with those neighboring cities.

[00:03:22] Crystal Fincher: Now who is the coalition that you began this with?

[00:03:25] Katie Wilson: Yeah, it's a really broad coalition. So there are a lot of community organizations that do work in Tukwila, especially with the many immigrant communities in Tukwila. So for example, there's the Congolese Integration Network, which was very involved, and African Community Housing and Development. And the Washington Community Action Network and Working Washington both really stepped up on helping us with some of the signature gathering and Get Out The Vote. And a number of labor unions who have members in Tukwila and South King County also really stepped up and helped out - including UFCW, including SEIU Local 6, Teamsters 117. So it was really a kind of a broad community and labor coalition that came together.

[00:04:18] Crystal Fincher: Really strong coalition. How did you, or how did the coalition, go about writing the initiative and determining exactly what was right for Tukwila?

[00:04:28] Katie Wilson: Yeah, so that process really began more than a year ago. And we basically talked to - on the one hand - policy experts, people who worked on minimum wage and other labor standards campaigns in Seattle and other places, even around the country. And we did a lot of talking to workers at Southcenter Mall. We did a couple of surveys where we had about 100 workers responding to survey questions about the issues that they face at work. And then of course just talking with all the organizations that were starting to come together in this coalition. We also did some door knocking just to Tukwila residents to take people's temperature on how they felt about something like this. And so through all that - and then I guess outreach to local businesses was an important part of that too - so we talked to, we would just walk into pretty much any local Tukwila business that we could find and try to talk to the owner about what they thought about this.

And so through all that, we came up with our policy, which is pretty simple. It's basically raising the minimum wage to match SeaTac. There's some small differences in how we do the inflation adjustment, so it's going to go up year after year based on cost of living. And it's going to be a little bit on its kind of own trajectory, but very similar to SeaTac. And we have a graduated structure so that the new wage, which will be $18.99 next year, will go into effect on July 1st of 2023 for large businesses - ones with over 500 employees worldwide. And then we have a three-year phase-in for smaller businesses so that they'll be going up and basically match the large employer rate in 2025. And then there's an exemption for the very smallest businesses, with up to 15 employees and up to $2 million in annual revenue. So that really came out of those conversations. And then the other piece of the policy - which is important - is access-to-hours policies. So that basically means that employers have to offer available hours of work to existing part-time employees before they hire new employees or subcontractors.

[00:06:55] Crystal Fincher: Which is actually a really big issue - there and across the board - and was really happy to see that addressed in the initiative. So going out - so now you've written the initiative - qualifying to get on the ballot involves getting a certain number of signatures from residents in the city. How did you go about that process?

[00:07:20] Katie Wilson: Yeah, so we began signature gathering around the end of March of this year. So our team - Transit Riders Union - we had two full-time people that we brought on to be organizers for this campaign. And we planned basically a campaign launch event around the end of March - brought together people from our coalition, Transit Riders Union members, volunteers - and so that was the kickoff of our signature gathering effort. And then after that, every Saturday we would have a big volunteer day where people would gather in the morning and we would send people out knocking on doors, gathering signatures. And then we also did more signature gathering during the week. So it was a pretty big effort.

And in Tukwila, signature gathering basically means door knocking. So if you're doing an initiative in Seattle, there's a lot of big public events and public spaces, like outside the light rail station, where you can stand there outside and just talk to person after person as they walk by and ask them to sign your petition. The thing about Tukwila is that there's not really many public spaces where you're going to find Tukwila residents. So you could go to Southcenter Mall, but the vast majority of people that you talk to don't actually live in Tukwila. They're there for shopping or they're there for work, and they live somewhere else. So if you want to efficiently gather the signatures of Tukwila residents, you really have to find people at home. And so it was almost all door knocking.

[00:08:59] Crystal Fincher: Which was really exciting to see, to watch from afar. And is, as you said, different than we've seen in a number of big cities and frankly, from a number of campaigns that have been really well-funded - is focusing a lot on tabling and transit stations, and going to those large events. So as you were planning the door knocking associated with this, were you taking advantage of that time to also educate the renters and homeowners on what this was, what it meant? What was that process like?

[00:09:43] Katie Wilson: Yeah. I think part of the great thing about doing an initiative is that when you're out gathering signatures, you're also talking to the same people whose votes you're going to need in the fall. And so we were definitely - yeah, obviously talking to people about why this was important and also asking them questions like - do you work in Tukwila? Do you know anyone who will benefit from a minimum wage increase? And so building those relationships with Tukwila residents and voters right off the bat, I think, really helped us when it came to the fall because a lot of people remembered having signed the petition in the spring, so they were already aware that this was happening and we got to come back to them and say - hey, remember that thing that you signed? We got enough signatures, so it's going to be on the ballot for you to vote on, right? So there was an opportunity to talk to the same people multiple times during the campaign. And we also did some registration of new voters too. So we were able to knock on doors and talk to people who maybe had just moved from another city and needed to update their registration to be able to vote in Tukwila, or someone who was an immigrant who is just newly eligible for voting. So we were able to do some of that as well.

[00:11:00] Crystal Fincher: So was this a largely volunteer signature gathering effort? I think you said that there were paid canvassers involved. Were there other financial supports involved? How did this look financially and volunteer-wise?

[00:11:18] Katie Wilson: Yeah, it was really a mixture. So we had a lot of volunteer signature gathering - again, like TRU members and volunteers who had just gotten involved in the campaign. Also, a lot of other organizations would bring out volunteers - the Seattle DSA - mostly during the Get Out The Vote portion of it, but definitely came out canvassing with us a number of times. And then we also had, on TRU's side, two staff organizers who were doing a lot of signature gathering as well. And then Washington Community Action Network has a canvassing team and they put in some time as well. So it was really a combination, I would say, probably roughly about half and half signatures gathered by volunteers versus signatures gathered by staff.

[00:12:08] Crystal Fincher: Makes sense - and then other people are looking at this, other organizations who may be considering initiatives to help improve things in their own communities. What are the biggest lessons that you learned about the signature gathering - going through this process - and what advice would you provide?

[00:12:25] Katie Wilson: Yeah, I think one thing is just that it is a lot of work. So yeah, don't underestimate how much work it is to go and gather what sounds like not a lot of signatures, right? We gathered over 3,000 signatures, but you have to expect that your validity rate is going to be very low, especially in a city like Tukwila, right - where you have a lot of - big proportion of renters, so people tend to move a little bit more often. Lots of non-citizens, so people might not realize that they're not able to sign it. And so we gathered over 3,000 signatures and we had plenty to qualify, but I think we had a little over 1,700 valid out of that. And door knocking is really intensive work, so you could spend basically all day knocking on doors gathering signatures and maybe you get 15-20 signatures at the end of that - just in terms of signatures per hour, signatures per day - it's a much slower process than it is, for example, in Seattle when you're just outside the Capitol Hill light rail station talking to 30 people an hour, right? And so that's one thing - is just don't underestimate the amount of work it is. But also, I think that - obviously our results in Tukwila were very, very good and there are, I think, a lot of reasons for that. But I do think that running an initiative is an opportunity to really just do some deep talking to voters and setting yourself up really well for people to come out and vote and know what they're voting on in the election itself.

[00:14:12] Crystal Fincher: So thinking - you get to the point where you do get enough signatures, you do qualify - I guess one other question, just with the validation - because with these signature gathering processes, valid signatures have to come from registered voters, so you have to meet all the qualifications and be registered. How did you go about the validation process for making sure that out of the signatures that you collected, you determine which ones were actually valid?

[00:14:40] Katie Wilson: Yeah, so it's ultimately - it's King County Elections that does the official validation. So you turn your signatures into the City Clerk and the City Clerk transmits them to King County Elections. And then King County Elections basically checks each signature, each entry against their voter file and the signature that they have on file for each voter. And what we were doing - before we turned in our signatures - we did our own rough verification process where basically we would - and we had an excellent volunteer data entry team from among TRU's membership who were doing this process, where basically they would - we would scan the petition sheets after we collected them. And then for each entry, we would check them against the Washington State voter file, which is a public document that you can download for purposes like this, and try to find that person to at least verify that they actually are a registered voter in Tukwila. Now, of course, we don't know what their signature looks like, right? So we can't actually match the signature that we got against the official signature, but we can at least try to find that name and that address and say - okay, yes, this is the person who is a registered voter at this address. And so that gave us a pretty good idea of how many valid signatures we had. And it also - what it allowed us to do - is then we had a list of hundreds of entries where we didn't find that person in the voter file. And so we were able to do some follow up with those people to, for example, try to help them get registered to vote if they were eligible, but not registered - or if they needed to update their voter registration information.

[00:16:35] Crystal Fincher: Excellent. Okay, so you qualified. Now it's time to - knowing that you're going to be on the ballot - to make sure that voters know that this is going to be on the ballot and why they should vote for it. How did you go about putting together how to communicate this to the residents of Tukwila?

[00:16:58] Katie Wilson: Yeah, I think we did all the things that campaigns do. And so we prepared over the summer. And then after Labor Day, we kicked off our Get Out The Vote campaign. And we - the centerpiece of it, of course, was just more door knocking, right? And we had pledge-to-vote postcards that we were inviting people to sign - that we would then mail back to them when ballots dropped. So they would get an extra reminder from themselves to look for their ballot. And we also made refrigerator magnets that are - they look like a campaign button, except it's a magnet on the back instead of a pin. And so we would give people reminder-to-vote refrigerator magnets. And we also did door hangers, which we would leave at the door if no one answered. We did some mailers - we didn't do mailers to everyone because it's pretty expensive, but we carved out a subset of voters to do mailers for. We did a bunch of texting people. So yeah, really just all of the above - everything that you do to get the word out. We did a few yard signs.

And really, I think we were expecting, when we went into this campaign, that we were going to have really strong, well-funded opposition from some of the business associations. And so we planned accordingly and did all the things that we would need to do in order to effectively fight a No campaign. We also got lots of media coverage, right? So we'd be in touch with all the TV news and the reporters trying to get news coverage of the campaign. So we did all those things. Of course, in the end, we actually had no opposition, which was kind of amazing, but we still did all the things. And I think that's part of the reason why we had 82% vote in favor of the measure.

[00:19:11] Crystal Fincher: Right - and I just want to pause for a moment and just talk about 82% - which is just an eye-popping number for a minimum wage initiative. We haven't really seen a result like this before. And as I look at it, it has a lot to do with how you went about the strategy and putting together this initiative from the very beginning. The strength of the coalition that you put together - it was broad, it was inclusive, it wasn't necessarily - hey, we're coming from the outside to tell you what we think would be best, or we already know exactly what we're going to do and we're just transplanting it to the city. You really did involve people who were there and looked at what would make the big differences for them locally - incorporated that into the legislation, talked to business owners there in the city. And it seems like that doing the legwork upfront and really understanding who your stakeholders were, understanding how this impacted people, and including the people who would be impacted made a big difference. What do you see as the reason why you were able to get such a huge amount of people in support?

[00:20:32] Katie Wilson: Yeah - well, thank you. I would love to believe that it's - we just ran such a great campaign, that's why we won by so much. But I do think that there were some other elements of it that were important, which were less due to what we did. One thing that we did do that I think was a good strategic decision that made a big difference was - in designing the measure - having it really explicitly say we are raising Tukwila's minimum wage to match next door in SeaTac, as opposed to just choosing a number, right? If we had said $19/hour, right - now it amounts to the same thing, it's going to be $19/hour. But I think that it just sounds so ridiculously reasonable that Tukwila should have the same standard as the city next door - that I think just that framing and having that be the way the legislation was written, rather than putting a number on it - I think was probably really helpful. It's just really hard to argue that - no, Tukwila should not have the same minimum wage as SeaTac - when you have people doing the same jobs right across the street from each other in the two different cities, who are getting paid different amounts, right? So I think that was good.

But I do think a couple of other things. I think that kind of the moment that we're in, right? We're in this moment where there's high inflation and just the cost of living - from food to gas to rent - are going up so rapidly. I think that ended up helping us. And I kind of thought that maybe it would hurt us because people would look at cost increases and say - well, if you raise the minimum wage, prices are going to go up even more. And we heard that fear a little bit, but I think mostly what the inflation and the high cost of living did was it just made it really undeniable that people who were making the statewide minimum wage or just a little bit more are not able to afford to live here anymore, right? And so I think that really on balance helped us. And I think also the fact that we've experienced this really tight labor market this year has meant that a lot of large employers have actually needed to raise their wages for the time being just to get workers in the door and to keep them there. So you've seen in the news - a lot of major corporations have just announced - okay, our starting wage right now is going to be $17 because otherwise we can't hire people. And so I do think there was an element of some corporations that might normally be inclined to fight something like this were already having to pay significantly more than the statewide minimum wage. And so it just wasn't worthwhile to them to fight it. And so I think that really helped. And that moment is not necessarily going to last, right? There's almost certainly going to be a recession next year. Probably we're going to enter a period where some people are being laid off and employers don't really need to pay more than the minimum wage to get people in the door. And so in that sense, I think we lucked into a window of opportunity where there just wasn't a lot of fight back.

[00:23:54] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, and certainly windows of opportunity are real and even if you have a great initiative with a great team - timing and just those larger conditions make a difference. But I do want to go back and talk a little bit more about your strategy for canvassing and even having those conversations throughout the signature gathering process - going back and revisiting people afterwards. Were you planning to visit most voters who you identified as likely to support the initiative?

[00:24:31] Katie Wilson: Yeah, our fall door knocking strategy - I think we ended up pretty much just knocking every - knocking all registered voters' doors in the fall and only taking out doors where, during the signature gathering, someone had refused to talk to us or didn't want to be bothered. So we - yeah, which was a very small minority of people. We really just ended up knocking everyone. Tukwila is a small enough city and we had enough people power in the fall, especially with many of our coalition allies stepping up and helping out, that we were able to knock, I think, everyone's door at least a few times. So we weren't terribly selective. I think after ballots dropped, we became maybe a little bit more selective in trying to knock the doors of like likely voters who hadn't voted yet. And even low-propensity voters - people who maybe voted once in the last four years or something. So we got a little more selective, but it ended up being the most efficient thing just to knock everyone.

[00:25:47] Crystal Fincher: So basically if you were a resident in Tukwila, you got a knock from the campaign at least once and most people got it multiple times. Even if it did - slightly - it was for good reason and a very beneficial result. I do think that door knocking is an area of a number of campaigns, especially initiatives sometimes, where a lot of campaigns overlook it. And they think - okay, we just need to make sure we have an adequate communications budget to be up with commercials and in people's mailboxes and online where people are at. But really focusing on having those conversations with voters and utilizing the opportunity to get a signature as not just a signature gathering opportunity, but one - to have a conversation to build understanding and support, and to really inform how you move forward - was a really smart and effective one that I would love to see more campaigns really being intentional about investing a lot more in. I guess looking at overall lessons that you came out of this with - what are the biggest lessons you learned, or biggest takeaways from this campaign for you?

[00:27:12] Katie Wilson: I think to say something a little more on the negative side - and where I think we and other people who are thinking about doing campaigns like this should think about how to do better - one of the most heartbreaking things for me was when I was doing some door knocking really close to Election Day, like the last couple of days. I talked to people at several doors where they had signed our petition, they were super supportive, but they had probably never voted before and they just didn't make the connection between - Oh, this is - there's an election, this is on the ballot, and you're going to get this thing in the mail which is your ballot, and you actually need to do something with that. And there's a deadline. And so I went to one household where there was a bunch of people living there in an apartment, and they had signed the petition, and they were excited about it. And they're searching for their ballots and finding their primary ballots, but not the - and I'm just like, Oh god, okay, it's just too late - the one person's ballot who we actually found wasn't there and wasn't going to be home. And so I think that Tukwila, year after year, has just rock bottom voter turnout compared to other cities in King County. And we still need to do an analysis to see to what extent our efforts moved voter turnout. And I think they probably did a little bit, but not hugely. So Tukwila - still this year - voter turnout compared to other cities in King County was very, very low. And so that - that I think is disappointing and just speaks to the structural factors which make that the case - we didn't shift those in a huge way. And so I think that's something to kind of think about for future campaigns is - okay, what is it going to take for these people who are registered to vote and a 100% there on the issue, but just are not practiced at this kind of civic engagement and no one is really helping them with that in a really deep way. So what is that going to take? So that's one thing.

And I guess just in terms of more positive overall lessons - obviously, raising the minimum wage is really popular, so we should do it more. There's a lot of other cities in King County that could do this. And so that is one thing that we're thinking about as we look at next year and beyond - is what are the opportunities to get this done in more cities around the county? Because I would imagine that it is very popular everywhere.

[00:30:00] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, really popular. And just on the point you made - I think, especially for people who are inclined to listen to this show on the radio, via podcast are more passionate about voting and civic engagement than the average person. But really important to understand that the average person is not necessarily excited at all, and probably doesn't know what there is to be excited about or mad about or ambivalent about - that it's just not on the radar for a lot of people. And even though it seems like it's consuming our lives or the news or anything like that, it's just not reality on the ground for a lot of people. And I think one of the things is - I look at my work - it's really the prolonged and repeated engagement that moves the needle there. And a silver lining on the cloud is it actually - a couple of percentage points really does change an election. Boosting turnout by 5% is a humongous amount in the quantities that we measure, and that completely changes the complexion of campaigns. So even the work you did - and again, we're still going through results and precinct-level results and figuring that all out, but clearly made a difference. And I hope there is continued engagement on the ground - in Tukwila specifically - and in areas where we do activate, whether it's through a candidate campaign or through an initiative, to keep that going because it really is the repeated engagement and people being able to see that something from the formation and policy prospect that - hey, they did get excited about, and then it did happen, and then they're receiving a benefit. And - oh, I see that what I sign and actions that I took resulted in something that actually benefits me, or people that I know, or family that I have, or whatever the case is makes a big difference. I guess as you're - you said you're considering looking at what's on the menu moving forward - what is next and what are you considering?

[00:32:31] Katie Wilson: Yeah, and I think that's exactly right - it's what you said - just that a one-off campaign is not enough to move that needle. And people need to have the experience of - oh yes, wow, I voted and something happened and it's actually something that makes a difference in my life. And so as we're looking at what to do next - as I mentioned, I think there's a lot of potential for other cities to do minimum wage raises, so we're looking at that. But we had our Transit Riders Union membership meeting in November and had a discussion about this, and I think heard really strongly from our members that we need to keep organizing in Tukwila specifically. And so we are kind of in the process now of figuring out what that could look like. And so we're having - actually tonight, we're having a meeting with some Tukwila renters to talk about what it might look like to push for stronger renter protections in Tukwila, right? Because while we were door knocking, we talked to many, many people who were getting large rent increases, and this was part of the sad thing too - is you'd talk to someone in the spring and they'd sign the petition. And then go back in the fall and they'd moved out because - they no longer live there - because they got a $300/month rent increase, right? And so I think one possibility is to push for stronger renter protections in Tukwila next year - basically working with a lot of the people that we met during this campaign this year.

And then I think we're also looking at how to keep organizing with workers in Tukwila, and specifically at and around Southcenter Mall. And the new law is going to go into effect next July. And so I think one project is making sure that everyone who works in Tukwila knows about that - knows the law, knows their rights - both on the minimum wage side of things, but also the access-to-hours policy. And the City is going to have to do some rulemaking to decide how to actually put those policies into practice, what to require of employers in terms of reporting and informing their employees. And so there's the details that have to be figured out. So we're going to be involved in that process and we're going to try to get Tukwila workers involved in that process. And yeah, I think also just continuing to talk to workers at the mall about what other issues they're facing - maybe there are other labor standards issues that workers in Tukwila want to do something about. So we're figuring that out now. We're in the space where there are so many possible things that we could do next year that sound worthwhile. And so we're going to have to figure out where there's the most interest and energy to move forward.

[00:35:30] Crystal Fincher: I just can't tell you how excited I am to see what you're doing next. I just have so much admiration for how you went about this. You nailed the strategy and the execution of this. And it really is a model for other coalitions to follow - that can really be community-based, community-led and bringing about the kind of change that people need in their own communities. So thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:36:02] Katie Wilson: Oh, my pleasure - it's great to be here.

[00:36:05] Crystal Fincher: All right - thanks so much.

Thank you all for listening to Hacks & Wonks. The producer of Hacks & Wonks is Lisl Stadler. Our assistant producer is Shannon Cheng, and our Post-Production Assistant is Bryce Cannatelli. You can find Hacks & Wonks on Twitter @HacksWonks, and you can follow me @finchfrii, spelled F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I. You can catch Hacks & Wonks on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts - just type "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to get our Friday almost-live shows and our midweek show delivered right to your podcast feed. If you like us, leave us a review wherever you listen. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the episode notes.

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