Reform-Minded O'Sullivan Sets Sights on City Attorney Position
Seattle City Attorney candidate Rory O'Sullivan outlines his plans for transformative change, including restoring Community Court, improving jail conditions, protecting civil rights, and aggressively prosecuting wage theft—all guided by his 20 years of legal and policy experience.
In a wide-ranging interview on the Hacks & Wonks podcast, Seattle City Attorney candidate Rory O'Sullivan outlined his vision for transformative change in an office he believes has gone in the "wrong direction" under current City Attorney Ann Davison.
O'Sullivan, a longtime legal advocate and former chair of the 37th District Democrats, criticized several of Davison's key decisions while proposing alternative approaches that he believes would better serve Seattle residents.
The Role of City Attorney
The Seattle City Attorney leads an office that prosecutes misdemeanors—offenses like shoplifting, simple assault, DUI, and trespassing—while representing the city in civil legal matters. The office advises departments and elected officials on policy enforcement and defends the city against lawsuits.
Unlike felony cases, which are handled by the King County Prosecutor, the City Attorney oversees lower-level offenses where sentences typically don't exceed one year.
"From public safety and police accountability, to tenant protections and wage theft enforcement, the decisions made by this office affect the daily lives of thousands of Seattle residents and reflect our city's values—or lack of them—in real time," explained host Crystal Fincher.
Background and Experience
O'Sullivan highlighted his experience creating systemic change throughout his career, including helping to establish the Foreclosure Prevention Unit at the Northwest Justice Project during the foreclosure crisis and opening a law firm to assist people with unemployment insurance benefits during the COVID pandemic.
"I've spent 20 years in local politics figuring out what are the sort of systemic changes we need to make Seattle a place that really reflects our values," O'Sullivan stated, emphasizing his work in helping to create Seattle's Democracy Voucher Program and Ranked Choice Voting.
His legal experience includes arguing cases before the Ninth Circuit and Washington State Supreme Court, representing homeowners facing foreclosure, survivors of domestic violence, and individuals struggling with unemployment benefits. O'Sullivan has also served as a pro tem judge at Seattle Municipal Court and as a clerk to a federal judge hearing criminal cases.
Criminal Justice Approach
O'Sullivan was particularly critical of Davison's decision to end Community Court, a program designed to divert people facing low-level charges into services instead of jail. While Davison had raised some concerns about the program, O'Sullivan noted that those concerns were being addressed when she "unilaterally ended Community Court."
Instead of simply contracting for more jail beds as Davison has done, O'Sullivan would negotiate for "appropriate conditions" in the King County Jail to ensure "inmates are receiving the medication that they need," that there is "re-entry planning," and that "rehabilitation services are provided in the jail."
When asked why he favors this approach over harsh punishment, O'Sullivan pointed to data from northern European prison models: "They have a model where individuals who are incarcerated have privacy, have normalcy, have services—and the recidivism rate is so much lower."
"It's not just that we need to treat people humanely, it's that we actually have better outcomes—lower recidivism and less crime—when we do that," he added. "So it's not just about coddling people, it's about creating a safer city."
Gun Violence and Traffic Safety
O'Sullivan favors a more comprehensive approach to reducing gun violence than the recent legislation to regulate hookah lounges endorsed by City Attorney Ann Davison, which O'Sullivan called "a surface level fix to a much, much deeper problem." He would invest in programs that work with gang-involved youth to address underlying issues.
On traffic safety, O'Sullivan supports reallocating police resources by having mental health professionals respond to certain calls without police presence, freeing officers to enforce traffic laws. He also favors expanding the use of traffic cameras, particularly near schools.
"What I've seen, what people tell me across the city, and what even moderates claim to be supportive of—is ensuring that our CARE team and other mental health service providers can respond to certain calls," O'Sullivan said, criticizing the current requirement that police officers must accompany mental health responders.
SOAP and SODA Laws
O'Sullivan opposes the recently reinstated Stay Out of Drug Areas and Stay Out of Areas of Prostitution (SODA and SOAP) laws, which he says "didn't work 30 years ago either." Rather than supporting these measures, which he described as "performative," O'Sullivan would focus resources on addressing underlying issues.
"The idea that Seattle police officers are going to take time out of their day to figure out which individuals are subject to an order and then enforce—like, it's just mind boggling," he said. If such orders were ever considered, O'Sullivan emphasized they would require "an individualized assessment" to ensure individuals aren't banned from areas where they receive treatment or have family.
Immigration and Civil Rights Protection
With the Trump administration's intensified immigration enforcement, O'Sullivan emphasized the importance of clear communication from the City Attorney's Office to immigrant communities.
"One thing that our entire city government should be doing is speaking loudly and clearly and communicating to our whole community—that Seattle officials, law enforcement officials, local officials do not ask about immigration status," he stated, adding that such assurance is vital for crime victims and witnesses.
Regarding civil rights protections for transgender people, O'Sullivan noted that while the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission is no longer litigating discrimination cases against transgender individuals, "the City can be the plaintiff in a Title VII civil rights action." He would ensure the City Attorney's Office steps up "where the federal government is obviously going in the wrong direction."
Surveillance Technologies and Privacy
O'Sullivan expressed concern about the expanded use of surveillance technologies in Seattle neighborhoods. "I think about this—would I want a bunch of CCTV cameras being used around the stores that I frequent, where my kid and my family go? And that's really worrisome to me," he said, adding that he's especially concerned about impacts on immigrant communities.
Victim Support and Restorative Justice
Drawing from his experience representing survivors of domestic violence, O'Sullivan criticized how the current criminal legal system often excludes victims. He advocates for expanded restorative justice programs that "can allow victims and survivors to have much more significant input into the entire process."
"The whole community comes together so that the offender has to face the people who have been impacted, and they have an opportunity to restore the harm that they've caused," he explained, noting his desire to build on existing restorative justice models operating in King County.
Labor and Housing Issues
O'Sullivan pledged to be more aggressive in prosecuting wage theft cases, noting that under Davison, the office has filed only two cases to enforce Seattle's labor standards in more than three years, compared to 11 cases filed between 2019 and 2021.
"I would be much more aggressive in ensuring that we're providing the Office of Labor Standards the support it needs," he said, adding that for repeat offenders, he would consider filing nuisance lawsuits to "take proactive steps to stop that from happening rather than getting bogged down in litigation."
Regarding housing, O'Sullivan expressed support for city action against algorithmic rent-setting software that has allegedly contributed to rising rents. He also backed the creation of a publicly accessible database of corporate-owned real estate in Seattle to enhance transparency in the housing market, building on the rental registration ordinance passed by the Seattle City Council about ten years ago.
Court Efficiency and Judicial Relations
To address the backlog in Seattle Municipal Court, O'Sullivan would lift the affidavit against Judge Pooja Vaddadi and reinstate Community Court, which he described as "a pretty efficient way of handling a relatively large caseload."
While O'Sullivan criticized Davison's blanket affidavit against Judge Vaddadi, he clarified that he believes filing affidavits of prejudice in specific cases can be appropriate: "There are absolutely cases where I don't think an individual client is able to get a fair hearing in front of a specific judge."
Police Accountability
O'Sullivan expressed frustration with the lack of accountability measures in Seattle Police Department contracts. While many candidates simply criticize the status quo, O'Sullivan specified he would be "prepared to take the Seattle Police Officers Guild—the next contract—to arbitration if they don't agree to those accountability measures."
He argued that better accountability would result in fewer lawsuits against the police department, benefiting Seattle taxpayers and preventing cases like the recent $10 million settlement with protesters who alleged excessive force by police during the 2020 demonstrations.
Management Philosophy and Experience
When asked about his ability to manage the City Attorney's Office, which employs over 200 people including 135 attorneys, O'Sullivan pointed to his experience as Managing Attorney of the Housing Justice Project, Director of Student Legal Services at the University of Washington, and as the owner of his own law firm.
"I have significant experience hiring and managing attorneys, which I think is going to be really important for this office," O'Sullivan said. "I also have experience building coalitions to create policy that Seattle voters want."
Making His Case to Voters
When asked why voters should choose him, O'Sullivan emphasized his 20 years of experience in local politics and his track record of creating systemic change.
"I think I have the experience to bring the kind of transformative change that we need to live our values as a city," O'Sullivan said, adding that he sees Seattle as "not really living its values" in how it handles issues from jail conditions to diversion programs.
About the Guest
Rory O'Sullivan
After graduating Magna Cum Laude from the University of Washington with dual degrees in Economics and International Studies, Rory worked as a Legislative Assistant for Congressman Jim McDermott. He obtained his JD from Georgetown University Law Center.
At Georgetown, Rory served as Editor-in-Chief of Eyes on the ICC and volunteered with the Innocence Project. He interned with the Federal Elections Commission and the Northwest Justice Project’s Native American Unit.
After completing a clerkship with Judge Edward Shea in the Eastern District of Washington, Rory transitioned into legal aid and poverty law, representing survivors of domestic violence, homeowners facing foreclosure, and workers attempting to access the benefits they earned. He was a Managing Attorney at the King County Bar Association’s Housing Justice Project and served as an Administrative Law Judge during the pandemic. In 2022, he founded Washington Employment Benefits Advocates, PLLC, a private practice law firm dedicated to representing workers seeking unemployment insurance benefits, where he currently practices.
Rory has argued cases before the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and the Washington State Supreme Court. As an adjunct professor at the University of Washington School of Law and Seattle University School of Law, he’s taught courses on constitutional law, access to justice, and administrative law. He’s published articles in the Seattle University Law Journal and Gonzaga Law Review. His Op Eds have been published in The Seattle Times, The Urbanist, and Real Change.
As a democracy reform advocate, Rory has worked for decades to loosen the grip of corporate interests on our elections. In 2003, he helped found an organization called Washington Public Campaigns (now Fix Democracy First). One of their early successes was overturning a state law that prohibited public funding for elections. This paved the way for the creation of Seattle’s democracy voucher program. In 2015, Rory helped craft the language of the initiative that became the first-in-the-nation democracy voucher program.
Rory has served on the board of FairVote Washington, an organization working to build support for ranked-choice voting and proportional representation. He was Chair of the Board when the organization helped pass the city initiative that will bring ranked-choice voting to Seattle primaries starting in 2027. He also served on Seattle’s first-ever redistricting commission, helping them come to a consensus on a map that rebalanced the city’s districts after a year of public hearings, outreach, and discussions.
Rory grew up mostly in the Seattle area, sang in the Columbia Boys Choir and played alto and tenor saxophone in his high school jazz band. He taught English in China for a year before returning to Seattle to attend the University of Washington. He lives with his wife, son, and dog in Columbia City.
Find Rory on Bluesky at @electrory.
Resources
Podcast Transcript
[00:00:00] Crystal Fincher: Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I’m your host, Crystal Fincher. On this show we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington state through the lens of those doing the work, with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what’s happening, why it’s happening, and what you can do about it.
Today, we're speaking with Rory O'Sullivan, a candidate running for Seattle City Attorney, a position that holds real everyday power in shaping how the city responds to harm, enforces its laws, and treats people in the legal system. City Attorney leads an office that prosecutes misdemeanors - offenses like shoplifting, simple assault, DUI, and trespassing. And represents the city in civil legal matters - that includes defending the city against lawsuits, advising departments and elected officials in shaping how policies are enforced and whether they're enforced.
One important note - felony cases are handled by the King County Prosecutor, not the City Attorney. So while the City Attorney doesn't oversee the most serious violent crimes, the office plays a critical role in how the city handles lower-level offenses and whether its approach prioritizes punishment, prevention, or support. From public safety and police accountability, to tenant protections and wage theft enforcement the decisions made by this office affect the daily lives of thousands of Seattle residents and reflect our city's values - or lack of them - in real time.
We'll be asking open-ended questions shortly - but first, we're going to start with our Hacks & Wonks Lightning Round of quick yes-or-no questions and a few one-word-answer questions. And if you aren't able to provide one of those answers quickly, we'll call it a waffle and you can choose to address it in more detail later if you wish. These quick questions are designed to give us - and you - a snapshot of where the candidates stand on issues, what values shape their thinking, and set the table for our upcoming questions about their vision for their role as City Attorney. Please keep the answers brief and direct, and we'll have plenty of time to get into the details in the open-ended questions.
So to start, do you own or rent your residence?
[00:02:23] Rory O'Sullivan: Own.
[00:02:24] Crystal Fincher: Are you a landlord?
[00:02:26] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:02:27] Crystal Fincher: Have you ever been a member of a union?
[00:02:30] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:02:31] Crystal Fincher: Have you ever walked on a picket line?
[00:02:32] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:02:34] Crystal Fincher: Have you ever crossed a picket line?
[00:02:36] Rory O'Sullivan: No.
[00:02:37] Crystal Fincher: Is your campaign staff unionized?
[00:02:40] Rory O'Sullivan: No.
[00:02:41] Crystal Fincher: If your campaign staff wants to unionize, will you voluntarily recognize their effort?
[00:02:46] Rory O'Sullivan: Absolutely.
[00:02:47] Crystal Fincher: What political party do you identify with?
[00:02:51] Rory O'Sullivan: I've been a Chair of the 37th District Democrats, I've been a Democrat all my life.
[00:02:55] Crystal Fincher: Have you used the Seattle Public Library system in the past month?
[00:03:01] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes, through my phone - like, I get electronic books through my phone.
[00:03:05] Crystal Fincher: As do I. Have you been to a City Council meeting in person in the past year?
[00:03:11] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:03:12] Crystal Fincher: Have you or someone in your household ever relied on public assistance?
[00:03:17] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:03:19] Crystal Fincher: Have you ever been stopped or questioned by police in Seattle?
[00:03:23] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:03:24] Crystal Fincher: Have you ever worked in retail or a job where you had to rely on tips?
[00:03:29] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:03:30] Crystal Fincher: Have you ever owned a business?
[00:03:32] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:03:34] Crystal Fincher: Have you ever managed a team of 10 people or more?
[00:03:37] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:03:38] Crystal Fincher: 100 people or more?
[00:03:40] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:03:41] Crystal Fincher: Have you ever reported someone's misconduct in your workplace?
[00:03:45] Rory O'Sullivan: Not that I can remember.
[00:03:47] Crystal Fincher: Have you ever fired someone?
[00:03:50] Rory O'Sullivan: No.
[00:03:51] Crystal Fincher: What's your favorite park in Seattle?
[00:03:53] Rory O'Sullivan: Seward Park.
[00:03:54] Crystal Fincher: What's your favorite restaurant?
[00:03:57] Rory O'Sullivan: I'm a pretty big fan of Island Soul.
[00:04:00] Crystal Fincher: Good one. What was the last live performance that you saw in Seattle?
[00:04:05] Rory O'Sullivan: Oh, the, I'm trying to - there was a comedy show in Belltown that I went to with my wife, just a month or so ago. It was, can't remember what it was called - Rain City something.
[00:04:20] Crystal Fincher: Cool, gotcha. Do you agree with the City Attorney's decision to end Seattle Community Court?
[00:04:26] Rory O'Sullivan: No.
[00:04:27] Crystal Fincher: Do you believe that SPD referrals for use and possession of controlled substances are equitable throughout the city?
[00:04:35] Rory O'Sullivan: No.
[00:04:36] Crystal Fincher: Do you believe the City Attorney's Office, or CAO, filing decisions for use and possession are being made equitably?
[00:04:44] Rory O'Sullivan: I haven't researched that in enough detail to answer that conclusively.
[00:04:49] Crystal Fincher: Do you support the SOAP and SODA legislation passed by the council?
[00:04:53] Rory O'Sullivan: No.
[00:04:55] Crystal Fincher: Do you agree with the city's decision to jail people arrested for misdemeanor offenses in the South Correctional Entity, or SCORE, facility in Des Moines?
[00:05:03] Rory O'Sullivan: No.
[00:05:05] Crystal Fincher: Do you support the new safety regulations for nightlife lounges operating after 2 a.m. recently passed by the Seattle City Council to address gun violence and disorder?
[00:05:15] Rory O'Sullivan: I support that specific legislation, but I definitely want to talk about that in more detail.
[00:05:20] Crystal Fincher: Do you support increasing funding in the City budget for violence intervention programs?
[00:05:25] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:05:26] Crystal Fincher: Do you believe it's inappropriate to subpoena media organizations for their records on behalf of SPD?
[00:05:34] Rory O'Sullivan: I would need to know more about a specific instance.
[00:05:37] Crystal Fincher: Do you support the city's decision to join a lawsuit that challenges the Trump administration actions against jurisdictions like Seattle that have so-called "sanctuary" policies?
[00:05:48] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes, although we should have been leading rather than following on that.
[00:05:52] Crystal Fincher: Do you believe that the City Attorney's Office provides sufficient data and transparency regarding their activity and outcomes?
[00:05:59] Rory O'Sullivan: No.
[00:06:01] Crystal Fincher: The CAO currently provides a quarterly report for the Criminal Division. Should quarterly reports also be provided for the Civil and Administrative Divisions?
[00:06:09] Rory O'Sullivan: Definitely.
[00:06:10] Crystal Fincher: Do you believe the CAO should make hiring decisions that include consideration of diversity, equity, and inclusion - or DEI?
[00:06:18] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:06:19] Crystal Fincher: Do you believe the CAO should incorporate DEI considerations in the design and evaluation of the effectiveness of programs and initiatives?
[00:06:27] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:06:28] Crystal Fincher: Should the CAO report on all financial settlements and staff costs related to claims regarding city employee conduct?
[00:06:36] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes. There's some legal considerations, but basically, yes.
[00:06:43] Crystal Fincher: Will you vigorously defend the city against lawsuits opposing funding or action by Seattle's social housing developer?
[00:06:50] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:06:51] Crystal Fincher: Do large corporations in Seattle pay their fair share of taxes?
[00:06:55] Rory O'Sullivan: No.
[00:06:56] Crystal Fincher: Do small businesses pay their fair share of taxes?
[00:06:59] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:07:01] Crystal Fincher: Do you plan to increase funding and staffing for prosecutions of labor violations like wage theft and illegal union busting?
[00:07:08] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:07:10] Crystal Fincher: Do you think facial recognition should be banned in city use?
[00:07:14] Rory O'Sullivan: No.
[00:07:16] Crystal Fincher: Did Seattle ever "defund the police"?
[00:07:18] Rory O'Sullivan: No.
[00:07:19] Crystal Fincher: Do you think every police officer in Seattle should be required to live in the city?
[00:07:25] Rory O'Sullivan: I would like that. I don't know that it's practical to require that.
[00:07:29] Crystal Fincher: Have you ever been arrested?
[00:07:31] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:07:33] Crystal Fincher: Have you ever served on a jury?
[00:07:35] Rory O'Sullivan: No.
[00:07:37] Crystal Fincher: Have you ever contested a traffic ticket?
[00:07:39] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:07:40] Crystal Fincher: Have you taken transit in the past week?
[00:07:43] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:07:44] Crystal Fincher: Have you ridden a bike in the past week?
[00:07:47] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:07:48] Crystal Fincher: What's your favorite song?
[00:07:50] Rory O'Sullivan: "Sing, Sing, Sing" by Benny Goodman.
[00:07:52] Crystal Fincher: What's the last song that you listened to?
[00:07:55] Rory O'Sullivan: Ooh. I think "Under the Bridge" by Red Hot Chili Peppers.
[00:08:03] Crystal Fincher: What's the most recent book you read?
[00:08:06] Rory O'Sullivan: I'm currently reading a Ken Follett book called Whiteout. I'm not sure what the last one was before that.
[00:08:13] Crystal Fincher: Gotcha.
[00:08:13] Rory O'Sullivan: I've been really excited to read Ezra Klein's Abundance, but I haven't quite gotten my hands on a copy of it yet.
[00:08:20] Crystal Fincher: Have you voted in every general election in the past four years?
[00:08:24] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:08:26] Crystal Fincher: Have you voted in every primary election in the past four years?
[00:08:29] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:08:31] Crystal Fincher: Have you made any political endorsements that you regret?
[00:08:35] Rory O'Sullivan: Not that I can remember, no.
[00:08:37] Crystal Fincher: Have you made any political donations that you regret?
[00:08:41] Rory O'Sullivan: Not that I can think of.
[00:08:43] Crystal Fincher: In 2021, did you vote for Bruce Harrell or Lorena González for Seattle Mayor?
[00:08:48] Rory O'Sullivan: Lorena González.
[00:08:49] Crystal Fincher: In 2021, did you vote for Ann Davison or Nicole Thomas Kennedy for Seattle City Attorney?
[00:08:55] Rory O'Sullivan: Nicole Thomas Kennedy.
[00:08:57] Crystal Fincher: Did you vote for Sara Nelson or Nikkita Oliver for City Council in 2021?
[00:09:03] Rory O'Sullivan: Nikkita Oliver.
[00:09:04] Crystal Fincher: In 2022, did you vote for Leesa Manion or Jim Ferrell for King County Prosecutor?
[00:09:09] Rory O'Sullivan: Leesa Manion. That was an easy one.
[00:09:12] Crystal Fincher: In 2024, did you vote for Alexis Mercedes Rinck or Tanya Woo for Seattle City Council?
[00:09:18] Rory O'Sullivan: Alexis Mercedes Rinck.
[00:09:20] Crystal Fincher: In 2024, did you vote for Nick Brown or Pete Serrano for Attorney General?
[00:09:26] Rory O'Sullivan: Nick Brown.
[00:09:27] Crystal Fincher: Did you vote for Donald Trump or Kamala Harris for President?
[00:09:31] Rory O'Sullivan: Kamala Harris.
[00:09:33] Crystal Fincher: And did you vote for Bob Ferguson or Dave Reichert for Governor?
[00:09:37] Rory O'Sullivan: Bob Ferguson.
[00:09:39] Crystal Fincher: Will you be voting to approve the Automated Fingerprint Identification System, or AFIS, levy on the April 22nd ballot?
[00:09:45] Rory O'Sullivan: Yes.
[00:09:47] Crystal Fincher: This year, on Seattle's social housing initiative in February, did you vote for Option 1A - which passed - 1B, or no to both?
[00:09:55] Rory O'Sullivan: 1A.
[00:09:55] Crystal Fincher: Will you be voting for Claudia Balducci, John Wilson, or Girmay Zahilay for County Executive?
[00:10:03] Rory O'Sullivan: Either Claudia Balducci or Girmay Zahilay - I'm still hearing from both of them.
[00:10:13] Crystal Fincher: Well, thank you for your responses - that concludes our Lightning Round. That wasn't painful at all, I think it was enlightening. Well, easy for me to say it wasn't painful, but hopefully you didn't find it to be painful.
Now we're going to shift into the heart of the conversation with open-ended questions. This is where we'll go deeper on your vision for the Seattle City Attorney's Office, how you would approach key issues facing Seattle, and how your values would guide your decisions in this role. So just to start, Why are you running to be Seattle City Attorney and what are your priorities?
[00:10:44] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah, thank you, Crystal. So ever since our current City Attorney was elected, I've seen decision after decision come out of that office, which makes me worried that we're going in the wrong direction - closing down Community Court, filing a blanket affidavit against Judge Pooja Vaddadi, and really failing to prepare the city for the Trump administration. So all of those have been motivating factors for me in running for office, in running for City Attorney specifically. In my background, I've always tried to figure out where I can have the most significant impact. So during the foreclosure crisis, I helped the Northwest Justice Project put together the Foreclosure Prevention Unit. And most recently during the COVID pandemic, I opened up a law firm to help folks out with unemployment insurance benefits when there were so many people struggling with COVID benefits. So at this point, I think I have an opportunity to make an impact in the City Attorney's Office, because I think we need really significant change there.
So in my background - as an activist - I helped create the Democracy Voucher Program. And I've seen situations in which Seattle voters are saying over and over again - They want to do some really big things. They're willing to create a new social housing provider, they're willing to do cutting-edge things when it comes to the way we fund our campaigns. And I think it's time to make some pretty big changes in our City Attorney's Office and how we think about public safety.
[00:12:28] Crystal Fincher: Now, I'm sure we'll get into your disagreements with current City Attorney Ann Davison In a little bit, but is there anything that you believe Ann Davison has gotten right that you would look to continue or build upon?
[00:12:42] Rory O'Sullivan: I mean, so it's hard to know. I mean, there's - you know, I don't have - the folks that I've spoken with who worked in that office under Pete Holmes, many of them left after Ann Davison took over. And so the impression that I've gotten from what happened after she took over was that it became a more difficult place to work, and there were questions coming up about how different cases were being prosecuted. So I have not seen a lot that I'd want to continue.
[00:13:19] Crystal Fincher: Now, violent crime, including gun violence, continues to harm communities across Seattle. Do you believe the current City Attorney has taken the right steps to address gun violence and violent crime? And what specific actions would you take to reduce violence and support impacted communities?
[00:13:38] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah, so there's some really amazing programs out there that work with gang-involved youth and really try to get at some of the underlying issues of gun violence. What I've seen from the City Attorney's Office is they've focused on things like regulating hookah lounges, which is really a surface level fix to a much, much deeper problem. And so to - like the idea that regulating a few businesses, primarily owned by immigrants and people of color, is going to all of a sudden fix our gun violence problem - I think, is wishful thinking, and just not realistic. I mean, I do think those businesses need to be - that there needs to be safety protections for the folks who work there and folks that attend those businesses. But to think that that's going to solve our gun violence problem is just wishful thinking. So we need to really be doing much deeper level work on that.
[00:14:42] Crystal Fincher: Now we've seen a rise in dangerous driving across Seattle - from an increase in pedestrians being injured to high-profile cases and nuisances like the so-called Belltown Hellcat. What role do you see the City Attorney's Office playing in improving traffic safety and addressing reckless or other dangerous driving behaviors on our streets?
[00:15:02] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah. Well, so this sort of gets us to the broader issue of law enforcement in Seattle. And right now, our police department is pretty thin on resources. And one of the reasons that they're thin on resources is because the Seattle Police Officers Guild won't give up any of their body of work. So what I've seen, what people tell me across the city, and what even moderates claim to be supportive of - is ensuring that our CARE team and other mental health service providers can respond to certain calls. So, if you're Downtown and you come across an individual who's experiencing a mental health crisis, you should be able to call 911 and have a response from the CARE team. But currently, because of the memorandum of understanding that's been negotiated between the Seattle Police Officers Guild and the CARE team, the CARE team cannot respond without a police officer. And so our police department is stretched really thin, even though we've created these other programs. So I would like to see a public safety system in which different problems are responded to by appropriate resources, which would allow, I think, the Seattle Police Department to actually be enforcing some of the traffic laws that they, I think, have been less able to enforce because of resource considerations.
[00:16:37] Crystal Fincher: So, in your opinion - is it correct to deduce then - that you're looking at that as a problem of lack of ability to enforce laws on the streets, and trying to create more of an ability to enforce from the police perspective?
[00:16:51] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah, exactly. I mean, there's also other enforcement mechanisms that I think could be, that we could be exploring there. So we use traffic cameras in school zones, which I think is really important to - as my son is walking to school, I sure want to make sure that the people who are driving around him are safe. And so, using - so particularly for enforcement that impacts our kids, I think it's appropriate to use things like camera enforcement.
[00:17:35] Crystal Fincher: What role does the City Attorney's Office play in mitigating federal attacks on civil rights, particularly those targeting trans people and immigrants?
[00:17:44] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah, so this is one place where our City Attorney's Office could be having a much more significant role. So we know that the federal EEOC [Equal Employment Opportunity Commission] is no longer litigating or helping folks with cases involving discrimination against our trans community. But, the City can be the plaintiff in a Title VII civil rights action, which means that if we see cases where there are entities that are discriminating against folks in our trans community, the City of Seattle can help litigate those cases. And that's something where we should be stepping up - we should be ensuring that the Seattle Office of Civil Rights is looking for those cases, we should be reviewing which cases the EEOC is dropping that are impacting our community. And the City Attorney's office should be stepping up where the federal government is obviously going in the wrong direction.
[00:18:44] Crystal Fincher: We're also seeing impacts from ICE and immigration enforcement actions on our immigrant community. Can the City Attorney's Office play a role in mitigating that or helping immigrants in our city?
[00:18:59] Rory O'Sullivan: So one thing that our entire city government should be doing is speaking loudly and clearly and communicating to our whole community - that Seattle officials, law enforcement officials, local officials do not ask about immigration status. And that if you're a victim of a crime, if you're a witness to a crime, you can come and speak with a Seattle official without having to worry about being deported. And I've seen that from other officials - I've seen that from the Tukwila Chief of Police. I haven't heard our City Attorney speaking out about this issue, but this is something that we absolutely need to be communicating and making sure that folks feel comfortable coming forward - with city officials, with law enforcement officials, with folks in our community.
[00:19:48] Crystal Fincher: Seattle has expanded its use of surveillance technologies, like CCTV systems and Real-Time Crime Center software, particularly in neighborhoods like the Chinatown-International District and Aurora Avenue. Civil rights organizations, including the ACLU of Washington, have raised concerns that these technologies may disproportionately impact Black and Brown communities, and could be leveraged by federal agencies like ICE to target immigrants and refugees. Given the Trump administration's intensified immigration enforcement efforts, how would you, as City Attorney, work to ensure that surveillance tools are not used to exacerbate racial disparities or facilitate federal targeting of vulnerable populations?
[00:20:31] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah, I mean, so I think about this - about where I live. So I live pretty close to downtown Columbia City. And so, you know, I think about this - would I want a bunch of CCTV cameras being used around the stores that I frequent, where my kid and my family go? And that's really worrisome to me. So I think we need to be really careful about deploying that technology. And I do worry about how it's going to impact our immigrant community. No matter what steps we take to try to keep the federal government from obtaining that information - I think that's a huge risk.
[00:21:16] Crystal Fincher: Are there any specific measures you would implement to promote transparency, accountability, and community oversight in the deployment of surveillance technologies?
[00:21:26] Rory O'Sullivan: I don't have any specific ideas on that right now, but obviously getting input from the entire community, from all the stakeholders would be a really important piece of that.
[00:21:37] Crystal Fincher: In light of Seattle's recent $10 million settlement with protesters who alleged excessive force by police during the 2020 demonstrations, and considering ongoing concerns about treatment of protesters, how would you, as City Attorney, ensure the protection of First Amendment rights during public demonstrations?
[00:21:56] Rory O'Sullivan: So that raises for me the issue of the accountability measures that we have for the Seattle Police Department. This is another area that I've been frustrated by what our leaders have been doing. Over and over again, our voters say that they want common sense accountability measures for our Seattle Police Department. And yet our city leaders keep on signing contract after contract that do not include the accountability measures that are typically part of other contracts. So as City Attorney, I would be prepared to take the Seattle Police Officers Guild - the next contract - to arbitration if they don't agree to those accountability measures. So I think when we have better accountability, then we're going to have fewer lawsuits against the Seattle Police Department, right? So if we're able to ensure that officers who are violating these policies are held accountable, then that's actually going to benefit the taxpayers of the City of Seattle - because we won't have these kinds of lawsuits impacting protesters and members of the public.
[00:23:06] Crystal Fincher: Ann Davison, Seattle's current City Attorney, ended Seattle's Community Court, a program designed to divert people facing low-level charges into services instead of jail. Critics argue that this decision rolled back a key alternative to prosecution and disconnected people from the help that they need. What's your view of that decision, and what changes, if any, would you make to how the City Attorney's Office approaches diversion programs?
[00:23:33] Rory O'Sullivan: So I've had an opportunity to speak with both Pete Holmes and the municipal court judges who worked on developing Community Court. And when Ann Davison came into office, she initially raised a couple concerns about Community Court, which - the individuals who were in charge of Community Court started developing programs and procedures and ideas to respond to those concerns. But rather than continue that conversation, she unilaterally ended Community Court. So she had raised what I thought were some legitimate concerns, and those concerns were being addressed. And so for her to then - despite the proposed changes and really without giving that program enough time to adjust - for her to unilaterally close it was, I think, a really bad decision. And just another example of burning bridges. She's burning bridges by affidaviting Judge Pooja Vaddadi. She's burning bridges by not working with the partners that she needs to be working with in Community Court. And it's just one more thing that I've been really frustrated with the current City Attorney on.
[00:24:52] Crystal Fincher: So what changes would you make to how the City Attorney's Office approaches diversion programs?
[00:24:58] Rory O'Sullivan: So with this specific program, one of the problems that they were having was the percentage of people who were failing to appear for subsequent hearings for Community Court. And that they were actually developing - so often, folks who are in Community Court are, you know, houseless and often don't have the resources, don't have some of the support that they need in order to, or even the transportation necessary to make it to a return hearing. So the folks who ran Community Court were actually in the process of obtaining funding to ensure that transportation and case management services were going to be provided so that they could increase the number of folks who attended those return hearings. That's the kind of work - I mean, that's the kind of practical, on-the-ground work that we need to do to make these programs successful.
[00:25:52] Crystal Fincher: Ann Davison talked about that decision being a result of her coming to the conclusion that pre-filing diversion was more effective than post-filing diversion. Do you share that view? And are there any more pre- or post-filing diversion programs that you would support enacting or expanding?
[00:26:12] Rory O'Sullivan: So I mean, I've had conversations with Lisa Daugaard as well. So my guess is what she's talking about with pre-filing diversion is primarily through LEAD - which is great. So when someone - instead of having charges filed against them - when somebody can receive the services that they need to avoid even having that, that's a great opportunity. But that's not going to work for everybody. There are going to be some people who are going to be involved in the criminal legal system and we need to support those individuals as well. So it's not an either-or. We need all of these programs to be able to really respond to the public safety issues that folks in Seattle face.
[00:27:01] Crystal Fincher: Now, Seattle has reinstated the Stay Out of Drug Areas and Stay Out of Areas of Prostitution - also known as SODA and SOAP laws - which allow judges to ban individuals accused, not necessarily convicted, of certain offenses from designated areas. While proponents argue that these measures aim to disrupt open-air drug markets and reduce sex trafficking, evidence suggests that these measures may not effectively reduce drug use or human trafficking and could disproportionately impact marginalized communities. As City Attorney, how would you assess the effectiveness of these laws? And what approach would you take to ensure that enforcement strategies are both effective and equitable?
[00:27:43] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah. So there are so many problems with this. So, first of all - and I think there's been some reporting on this - there's only been like one or two of those orders that have actually been entered. So Ann Davison spent a lot of time on reinstituting these provisions from 30 years ago - that didn't work 30 years ago either. So we took some time from the Seattle City Council and from her office drafting up this legislation. It got passed last year and it's not actually being used. Now, on top of that, as we've discussed already, we know that the Seattle Police Department is stretched thin. So, the idea that Seattle police officers are going to take time out of their day to figure out which individuals are subject to an order and then enforce - like, it's just mind boggling. This is just another example of a performative attempt to claim that you're doing something when you're not actually addressing the underlying problem.
[00:28:52] Crystal Fincher: So would you plan on prosecuting violations of these laws? Would you just propose not enforcing them? What will you do as City Attorney with these laws and actions?
[00:29:02] Rory O'Sullivan: Right. So, I mean, I'm going to be interested in seeing - between now and when I take office - whether there's any data to show any effectiveness. And one thing that I can say conclusively is that I would ensure that these orders would not be sought against individuals who could potentially be harmed. And what I mean by that is - you would need to do an individualized assessment - does the person who this order is being sought against, do they have family members or treatment services within the area that you're trying to ban them from? So, you know - before ever attempting to seek one of these orders, I think there'd be a pretty extensive analysis that would be needed. And, you know, in reality, my office probably would not seek these orders. But, you know, I would need to see what the data is on it.
[00:30:07] Crystal Fincher: So much of our public conversation around crime focuses on punishing offenders, very little attention is paid to rehabilitation and prevention. That conversation often claims to speak for victims, but studies, including a major one just released, show that most victims of violent crime actually want more investment in rehabilitation and prevention than in punishment. Do you agree that we should focus more on keeping people from becoming victims in the first place? And if so, how would you use the powers of the City Attorney's Office to do that?
[00:30:38] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah, I think that this is a really important component here. So, you know, one thing - so one of the things that Ann Davison has done since she came into office was she negotiated with the King County Jail so that there were more beds that are available, right? So that we can process more people through this cycle of putting them in jail for 30 days, letting them out. Then, you know, something else happens and they're back in jail. So we now have more beds. What I would like to see, what I would do as City Attorney is instead of just negotiating for more beds in the King County Jail, I would negotiate a contract that ensures appropriate conditions that folks could - to know that inmates are receiving the medication that they need, to know that there is re-entry planning, to know that there are rehabilitation services that are provided in the jail. So, you know, unfortunately, King County Jail is currently a disaster. And it's one of these things that we, that, you know, there's not a big constituency out there for taking, spending the time and resources that are necessary to improve that. But that is something that's going to be vitally important if - again, if we want to break the cycle of crime, we need to ensure that when folks are in custody, that they're receiving appropriate medication, that they're receiving services, that there's adequate re-entry planning to help ensure that on release, they're not going to be in a much worse situation than they were before.
[00:32:12] Crystal Fincher: Now, there's a chunk of our population that believes that hearing things like that - we need to improve services, the conditions are bad - who think, Well, yeah, the conditions are bad. That's the point. We want jail to be a bad place. We don't want to coddle people. What are these services? These people need to experience punishment. It needs to be horrible and painful, so they don't want to come back and we deter people from wanting to go in there because it's so bad. And that will help improve crime. Crime exists because there isn't that right now - we're treating people too leniently. We need to crack down and throw these people in jail and teach them some consequences. Why is that not your approach? And does that make the community safer?
[00:32:56] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah. So fortunately, there's data on this issue. So if you look at - there's some really good programs, and in fact, the Washington State Department of Corrections has been starting to send staff members to jails and prisons in northern Europe that have a much different model. They have a model where individuals who are incarcerated have privacy, have normalcy, have services - and the recidivism rate is so much lower. Not only that, but right now, one of the choke points for the King County Jail is they're having a really hard time hiring staff. And the reason for that is it's a horrible place to work. The conditions - not only for inmates, but for staff members - are not good. These facilities in northern Europe have inmates and guards who can converse with each other like normal people, and so it's actually a much better work environment. So it's not just that we need to treat people humanely, it's that we actually have better outcomes - lower recidivism and less crime - when we do that. So it's not just about coddling people, it's about creating a safer city.
[00:34:26] Crystal Fincher: How do you respond to people who then say - Well, that takes a lot of money, and now you're choosing to spend money on criminals instead of the wonderful other residents of the city, who - in their view - deserve it more?
[00:34:42] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah. I mean, so I think there are a lot of terrific programs out there that we need to ensure receive sufficient funding. And I will be happy to work with the council on developing, working up progressive revenue sources to ensure that we have the ability to fund programs. But this is one of those things that - this is not about the inmates who are in jail, this is about us. How do we treat the folks who are in the most difficult position, right? So this is a reflection on us as a community. If we decide that it's okay to have people live in inhumane conditions, then that says something really negative about us. And that's - I don't think that's what most Seattle voters want.
[00:35:46] Crystal Fincher: Now, many crime victims report not receiving the help they need in the aftermath of what they've experienced - whether it's trauma recovery, housing support, financial support to recover from property loss, or simply being kept informed about what's happening in their case. As City Attorney, how would you work to ensure that victims and survivors are better supported and centered in the legal process, not just used to justify punishment?
[00:36:13] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah. Well, so I'll just note that as a legal aid attorney, I have experience representing survivors of domestic violence, and I've seen those - yeah, I've worked with folks who have exactly those complaints. And unfortunately, the way our criminal legal system works right now, it is often very exclusive of the most impacted people. And that's one of the reasons that programs, you know, restorative justice programs, can create an opportunity for victims and survivors to have much more significant input, right? So if, and, you know, restorative justice doesn't work and isn't necessarily appropriate in every single instance, but in many cases, restorative justice framework can allow victims and survivors to have much more significant input into the entire process. So the whole community comes together so that the offender has to face the people who have been impacted, and they have an opportunity to restore the harm that they've caused. And so I think, and fortunately, we have some really good restorative justice model programs that have been in operation in King County. And I would want to build and expand on those, so that we can ensure that victims and survivors are a more integral part of the process and that their voice is heard.
[00:37:54] Crystal Fincher: Now, wage theft remains a significant issue in Seattle, with cases like those involving Baja Concrete and Newway Forming highlighting the challenges workers face in recovering stolen wages and trying to avoid retaliation if they are seeking those stolen wages. Given that the City Attorney's Office plays a crucial role in prosecuting wage theft cases referred by the Office of Labor Standards, how do you plan to enhance enforcement efforts and ensure timely and effective justice for affected workers?
[00:38:25] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah, so I wrote an op-ed about this. And I'll just note that the Seattle Attorney's Office was an important part of that enforcement. So, in between 2019 and 2021, the Seattle City Attorney's Office filed 11 cases against businesses that were engaging in violations of Seattle's labor standards. In the more than three years since Ann Davison was sworn in as City Attorney, there have only been two cases that have been filed in front of the hearing examiner to enforce Seattle's labor standards. So, and I've heard, again, from folks who worked in that part of the City Attorney's Office - that the cases that had been filed under Pete Holmes and were on appeal, that her office was questioning the arguments that they were making. This is not the way to support our Office of Labor Standards. I would be much more aggressive in ensuring that we're providing the Office of Labor Standards the support it needs. And in cases of really bad actors - in cases like Baja Concrete - there may be an opportunity to file a nuisance lawsuit. When you have businesses that are repeatedly violating city law, you can take proactive steps to stop that from happening rather than getting bogged down in litigation.
[00:40:06] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. Now, The Washington Attorney General recently filed a lawsuit against RealPage and several landlords, alleging that they used algorithmic software to coordinate rent increases, affecting approximately 800,000 leases in Washington state. This practice is believed to have significantly contributed to rising rents in Seattle. As City Attorney, what steps would you take to address the harm caused by those practices and to prevent similar issues in the future?
[00:40:37] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah. So, I mean, there's a bunch of things. One is that I think there's an opportunity, potentially, for the Seattle City Council to take proactive steps to prohibit this kind of activity. Also, I mean, as Seattle City Attorney, I would have wanted to work with Nick Brown on that lawsuit. You know, this is something that, as you noted, impacts Seattle renters. And so it's been - again, it's been frustrating to see the City Attorney's Office fail to engage in these kinds of issues.
[00:41:13] Crystal Fincher: So would you support the creation of a publicly accessible database of corporate-owned real estate in Seattle to enhance transparency and accountability in our housing market?
[00:41:22] Rory O'Sullivan: Absolutely. And we've taken the first step. So the Seattle City Council, about 10 years ago, passed a rental registration ordinance. So we have a process where rental units have to be registered. And so I think we can take the next step to gather the information to ensure that this doesn't negatively impact Seattle renters. I think that would be a really good step to take.
[00:41:51] Crystal Fincher: So the Seattle Municipal Court has faced significant backlogs in cases in recent years. As City Attorney, how would you address those backlogs to ensure timely justice?
[00:42:02] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah, well, one is lifting the affidavit against Judge Pooja Vaddadi. When you have seven elected judges and the Seattle City Attorney's Office basically says - We're not going to let one of those judges hear any cases - you're going to, that's going to create a backlog, right? I mean, so that's, I mean, that's one important thing. Another piece of that is Community Court. So Community Court was actually a pretty efficient way of handling a relatively large caseload. So when Ann Davison shut down Community Court, each and every one of those cases had to be processed through the traditional criminal legal system - which took more time and has created unfortunate, and I think, backlogs that have really negatively impacted our public safety.
[00:43:01] Crystal Fincher: Now, you just referred to Ann Davison's office filing a blanket affidavit of prejudice to disqualify Judge Pooja Vaddadi from all criminal cases, with her office citing a pattern of biased rulings. Now, the substantiation of those claims of biased rulings was questioned, and the move sparked significant debate about prosecutorial discretion and judicial independence. We've heard that you don't view that action as appropriate. Are there any circumstances where you would consider using such authority to disqualify a judge from cases?
[00:43:37] Rory O'Sullivan: So, as an attorney, I appear in front of a large number of judges, and there are absolutely cases where I don't think an individual client is able to get a fair hearing in front of a specific judge. So, I personally have filed affidavits of prejudice in specific cases. But it is absolutely not appropriate to file a blanket affidavit of prejudice with respect to all criminal cases against one of our seven elected municipal court judges. So, yes, there are certain limited instances in which an affidavit of prejudice in a specific case is appropriate, but the kind of blanket affidavit of prejudice that our current City Attorney issued is absolutely not appropriate.
[00:44:24] Crystal Fincher: Now, we also asked each candidate in this race to ask a question of their opponents. The first question we have is from your opponent, Erika Evans. The question is: You've spoken about being a voice for vulnerable, underserved, and diverse communities. Given that there is a Black woman in the race who has both extensive and relevant experience as a U.S. Attorney and in the City Attorney's Office, and lived experience that reflects concerns held by many of those communities, how do you reconcile your decision to stay in the race instead of stepping aside to support her candidacy?
[00:45:01] Rory O'Sullivan: So, yeah, I appreciate that question. And I've had a number of - I think, I hope - productive conversations with Erika. I think she's an amazing candidate. I've been in - everybody that I've spoken with about her has been impressed by her. And I mean, she's been a federal prosecutor, which is a pretty high profile position. And so I'll just start out by saying - I really respect her, and I think she would make a far better City Attorney than our current City Attorney. That being said, I think I bring experience to this office that is needed at this time. So what I'm seeing is that we need really big, transformative change and I have the experience doing that. So I helped develop the Democracy Voucher Program. I have defended some of our cutting edge tenant protections in the Washington State Supreme Court. And I have experience working with lawmakers in the city and at the state level that I think is going to be really valuable for this office. So I'm running because I want to bring some big, transformative changes to this office. But I really appreciate - and I'll also note - one of the reasons that I helped create the Democracy Voucher Program, one of the reasons that I helped pass Ranked Choice Voting in Seattle, is so that Seattle voters would have a lot of really good choices. So I am super excited that Erika's in the race. And I'm really glad that Seattle voters will have an opportunity to choose from a number of qualified candidates. And a number of candidates who will be, I think, far superior to the incumbent. And I leave it up to the voters of Seattle to determine who's going to make the best City Attorney.
[00:47:00] Crystal Fincher: Now, the next question is from Nathan Rouse, who asks: Our last two city attorneys also did not have criminal trial experience. How are you better equipped to come in and handle criminal cases?
[00:47:13] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah, so a couple of things. So I have represented defendants in Seattle Municipal Court in a criminal case. So I used to be the Managing, or I used to be the Director of Student Legal Services at the University of Washington. And so we did handle criminal cases against University of Washington students. I've also been a pro tem judge at Seattle Municipal Court. I've also, I also served as a clerk to Judge Ed Shea in the Eastern District of Washington - so in federal court, hearing criminal cases and being part of criminal trials, as a clerk to a federal judge. So I do come into this position with criminal law experience. But I think - again, I think the thing that is going to be important to Seattle voters is that the City Attorney is able to bring about the change that's necessary to a really currently dysfunctional public safety system - and to the system in general, including how it's impacting wage theft, tenant protections, and many other ways that it impacts the people of Seattle.
[00:48:38] Crystal Fincher: Now, Seattle voters are being faced with a decision here. There's an incumbent who's running for re-election and, to-date, three challengers. And voters are trying to make sense of - if they want to stay the course with the incumbent or make a change. But they have a number of choices if they do want to make a change. How do you differentiate yourself? And what do you tell voters about what the difference is between you and the other three challengers to Ann Davison, and why they should vote for you?
[00:49:08] Rory O'Sullivan: Well, so, I mean, this is sort of similar to what the last two questions were getting at. But, you know, I've spent 20 years in local politics figuring out what are the sort of systemic changes we need to make Seattle a place that really reflects our values. And that's what I bring to this office - is that experience working with policymakers, that experience - so I've argued cases in front of the Ninth Circuit, I've argued cases in front of the Washington State Supreme Court. I've handled, you know, I've represented homeowners facing foreclosure, survivors of domestic violence, folks trying to get their benefits with unemployment insurance with the Employment Security Department. And I think those are the types of experiences that are going to inform what we're going to need in order to move forward and to really bring our city in - what I've seen is that our city is not really living its values. Well, you know, as we've touched on in this conversation, we have a King County Jail that has seen a number of inmates die. We have, you know, we've closed down Community Court, we've closed down opportunities to help folks disengage from the criminal legal system. And that's just negatively impacting public safety. So, you know, what - I think I have the experience to bring the kind of transformative change that we need to live our values as a city.
[00:50:59] Crystal Fincher: And as we close, one of the major things that doesn't get talked about as much as we talk about policy sometimes is the job of managing that office - managing the staff in the office, working in conjunction with other partners and law enforcement in the criminal legal system and with stakeholders and impacted people in the community. What is your experience, and why should the community have the confidence in your ability to manage this office in a way that will enable you to accomplish the goals that you're talking about?
[00:51:33] Rory O'Sullivan: Yeah. So I've - first of all, I've run large programs. So I've - I was the Managing Attorney of the Housing Justice Project, as the Director of Student Legal Services at the University of Washington. And I've created my own law firm - so I currently own and operate Washington Employment Benefits Advocates. So I've done everything from the marketing for the law firm, to hiring, to making sure that we're in compliance with all the different state laws and local regulations that impact a small business. And so I've just - I've got a lot of experience running a large operation, which obviously the City Attorney's office is. So the City Attorney's Office employs over 200 people, including 135 attorneys. And I have significant experience hiring and managing attorneys, which I think is going to be really important for this office. I also have experience building coalitions to create policy that Seattle voters want. So when I helped to write the Democracy Voucher program in 2015, we had to bring together a large coalition of volunteers and supporters and organizations and endorsers to make that program successful. Similarly, in 2022, when I was chair of Fair Vote Washington and we passed the Ranked Choice Voting ballot measure in the City of Seattle, that took a significant amount of coalition building. So I have the experience putting together coalitions and partners and engaging the community to ensure that we can move these big projects forward.
[00:53:31] Crystal Fincher: Well, thank you so much for sharing your priorities, your platform, and helping us understand who you are and what your vision is for the office. Very much appreciate that - and believe that accountability to the voters is key to democracy, which we really need as much as possible at this time. As we've heard today, this office plays a powerful role in shaping how Seattle handles safety, accountability, justice, and civil rights - and the decisions made here will have real impacts on people's lives every day. So thank you so much for your time and your willingness to speak directly to the people of Seattle.
[00:54:08] Rory O'Sullivan: Well, and Crystal - thank you so much for all the work that you do with Hacks & Wonks. This is such an important program. And there's, you know - with the state of journalism today, it's just wonderful to have folks like you who are really digging into these issues when a lot of media organizations are not. So thank you for your work.
[00:54:28] Crystal Fincher: Thank you very, very much.
Thank you for listening to Hacks & Wonks, which is produced by Shannon Cheng. You can follow Hacks & Wonks on Bluesky @HacksAndWonks. You can find me on Bluesky at @finchfrii - that's F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I. You can catch Hacks & Wonks on every podcast service and app - just type "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to get the full versions of our Friday week-in-review shows and our Tuesday topical show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, leave a review wherever you listen. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com.
Thanks for tuning in - talk to you next time.
