Week in Review: August 29, 2025 - with Robert Cruickshank

Hacks & Wonks 2025 Post-Primary Roundtable

“Icing out ICE: Spokane outlaws warrantless immigration enforcement at events on public property” by Emry Dinman from The Spokesman-Review

“ICE Detains Disabled Veteran With Green Card at Citizenship Interview” by Mandy Taheri from Newsweek

“Wife of WA vet arrested by ICE at citizenship interview speaks out” by Gustavo Sagrero Álvarez from KUOW

“Federal agents arrest firefighters working on WA wildfire” by Isabella Breda and Conrad Swanson from The Seattle Times

“Trump’s border czar makes a visit to Seattle, Tacoma” by Mara Mellits from The Seattle Times

“Uber Eats to pay $15M settlement for Seattle gig labor violations” by Josh Cohen from Cascade PBS

“Seattle mayoral candidate Katie Wilson gets grocery union endorsement” by David Kroman from The Seattle Times

“Washington’s Largest Private-Sector Labor Union Backs Katie Wilson” by Hannah Murphy Winter and Nathalie Graham from The Stranger

“Official City Social Media Becomes Bruce Harrell Fan Pages After His Loss In The Primary” by Hannah Krieg from The Burner

“Man struck from behind while biking on section of Lake Washington Blvd where city dropped planned safety upgrades” by Tom Fucoloro from Seattle Bike Blog

“Op-Ed: Closing Seattle Schools Is Still a Bad Idea” by Robert Cruickshank for The Urbanist

“Protesters occupy Microsoft office as company reviews its work with Israel's military” from The Associated Press

“Workers Establish "Liberated Zone" On Microsoft Campus To Protest Company's Genocide Profiteering” by Hannah Krieg from The Burner

“Microsoft fires 2 employees after protest, breaching president’s office” by Caitlyn Freeman from The Seattle Times

Find stories that Crystal is reading here

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[00:00:00] Crystal Fincher: Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm your host, Crystal Fincher. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington state through the lens of those doing the work, with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening, and what you can do about it.

If you missed our 2025 Post-Primary Election Roundtable, we released it as a podcast this week - or you can catch it on our YouTube channel. Today, we're continuing our Friday week-in-review shows, where we review the news of the week with our co-host. Welcome back to the program, friend of the show and today's co-host: chair of Sierra Club Seattle, longtime communications and political strategist, Robert Cruickshank. Welcome back!

[00:00:57] Robert Cruickshank: Thanks for having me again, Crystal.

[00:00:59] Crystal Fincher: Very happy to have you. We have a lot of news to talk about this week. We're going to start talking about jarring news this week, about some really ridiculous and wild ICE detentions. We've seen so many times - between ICE, Customs and Border Patrol - just really troubling scenes on our streets and our communities. But news that the City of Spokane is taking action against this by outlawing warrantless immigration enforcement at events on public property. So what is going on and what did Spokane accomplish here?

[00:01:38] Robert Cruickshank: Yeah. People see around the country - in LA, DC - the really super high profile ICE actions. And I think we should expect to see that here in Seattle and in Washington state at a large scale very soon. Tom Homan, the head of the Border Patrol, was in Seattle last week. Just this week, he confirmed that people should expect to see significantly ramped up activity from these federal goons - really - here in Seattle in September. So preparing for that is essential. And what Spokane has gone ahead and done is outlaw warrantless immigration enforcement at events on public property. And this is a response to the city canceling an event called Tacos and Tequila, which is an annual event that celebrates Spokane's Latino community. It would have taken place earlier this month on a public street in downtown Spokane, but the city had to cancel it because of concern about ICE enforcement, that federal goons would just show up in the masks - without labels, without names, without identification, without warrants - and harass or potentially arrest people on site. And so Spokane fought back. And so the City Council there has passed this new ordinance outlawing the warrantless immigration enforcement. This is important because what you're seeing is - it's not just Seattle. It's cities across Washington state stepping up to try to fight back against ICE, who is, again, already here. They're already doing enforcement here in Washington state. But we know they're going to ramp it up and being able to prepare for that by passing ordinance like this - making it clear that city property, city resources can't be used to help the suppression is really valuable.

[00:03:19] Crystal Fincher: It is really valuable. It will be interesting to see how many other cities follow and pass legislation similar to this. Now, just yesterday - and we're recording this on Thursday morning - we saw news that two firefighters from the frontlines were detained by federal enforcement while fighting a fire in the Olympic Peninsula, the biggest fire happening in Washington right now. It seems like they're just - what people previously thought were guardrails, what people previously thought were lines that wouldn't be crossed - whether it's going into courthouses, religious establishments, active public emergencies. Those don't seem to be barriers anymore. It doesn't seem like there are any guardrails here. It's just really alarming to see. Do you think most people are aware of the severity of this happening? Because it's so easy to think - Well, I see it. Everybody must see it. But the way that media bubbles are, algorithms are now - not everybody is seeing the same thing.

[00:04:27] Robert Cruickshank: I think people are starting to see, I think it is starting to break through - in stories like the one you just referenced, where ICE agents show up at the actual firefighting location where they're trying to knock down this fire that's been burning for nearly a month on the Olympic Peninsula. That stuff gets public attention. I've seen that shared widely among normies who are not super politically engaged like you or I. I think it does break through - and from what I've heard from people who are living in Washington, D.C. right now, is the same thing I heard from people living in Los Angeles earlier this year. That as soon as they start seeing, whether with their own two eyes on their street or posts shared from friends of these agents with guns going down to the Home Depot parking lot nearby, going to the school down the street where you're walking your kids to school, as has happened to some of my friends in Washington, D.C. this week - that brings it home really quickly and really easily. And I think that this particular incident you mentioned, where they just go grab firefighters off the fire lines, it's significant also because it shows the mentality of the Trump regime and these federal goons. They think it's a badge of honor that they're able to go up to an active fire site and do this. What they're telling all of us is they are not intimidated. They will not be stopped. They will not be limited. There will be no guardrails. Everyone has to give in to their aggressive enforcement of these immigration rules, their aggressive attacks on people of color - because that's really what this is about. Nothing will stop them. Nothing can stop us is the mentality they want us in the public to believe. It's all about threats, intimidation, and fear. And yet what you see - whether it's Spokane, whether it's people in Washington, D.C. walking their kids to school, yelling shame at these agents, people protesting in L.A. - what you're seeing is the American public isn't standing for it. They're fighting back. We're going to have to prepare here in Seattle because that ramped up enforcement is coming for us.

[00:06:27] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. I want to talk about some events in the city of Seattle now - starting with Uber Eats paying $15 million to settle action against it for gig labor violations. What happened here and what brought this about?

[00:06:44] Robert Cruickshank: Well, I mean, this goes back to two things the City of Seattle did - back when we used to have a progressive City Council earlier in the decade - that really paid off. One of them was the creation of the Office of Labor Standards to enforce City law. And then the actual creation of laws regarding minimum wage for gig workers. And that last one - the ordinance around the minimum wage for gig workers - Uber and other app delivery companies, rideshare companies fought pretty hard last year in 2024 to try to get that repealed. There was a big fight in City Hall. And the City Council eventually backed down when Bruce Harrell, under intense pressure from labor, said he wouldn't support that. One of the reasons why that minimum wage exists, why that enforcement exists is because there were widespread reports that companies like Uber Eats were committing wage theft. They weren't properly paying their drivers and workers what they were owed under the minimum wage. So what you saw is the two essential elements of City policy - the minimum wage law and the ability to enforce that law - coming together. The City opened an investigation last year into Uber Eats - turns out that they were guilty. They are doing $15 million of backpay, they're paying a $30,000 fine to the City. This is the system working as intended. It is a system that progressives on the City Council earlier this decade put into place. It withstood criticism - there were a lot of people who mobilized last year in 2024 to defend this law, to defend the City's enforcement capacity. And it paid off - literally - for these workers. We should expect Uber Eats to, and other companies to take another run at this. They will keep trying to defund the City's enforcement power. They'll keep trying to repeal our guidelines and minimum wage rules protecting these workers. But you can see here, this is exactly why the City did this and why it's so important to defend it once they do.

[00:08:37] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. And as you talked about, the pushback - when they tried to defund this office, repeal rights for workers, this app delivery minimum wage - was swift and severe. And I think this is even more important when we look at the national landscape and the National Labor Relations Board being completely neutered, really. We just had a court ruling that essentially ruled the National Labor Relations Board - at least their enforcement mechanisms - unconstitutional. So we're seeing that kind of attack you were just cautioning people that is still continuing in Seattle, really happening on the national level - and they're seeing success on the national level. So - so many people now, the only place where they're going to have to turn are to their states and to their cities. And so cities having these guardrails and this ability to launch these investigations, to levy these fines themselves is critically important for maintaining worker rights.

[00:09:42] Robert Cruickshank: That's exactly right. You mentioned the attack on the National Labor Relations Act. This is a 90-year-old law, a pillar of the New Deal from the 1930s. A number of labor advocates and legal scholars think that this Supreme Court - radical as it is - is going to try to rule that entire law unconstitutional. And obviously, there will need to be a strong pushback from our Democratic leadership in Washington, D.C. about that. But the thing we can do most immediately and effectively is, as you just said, make sure that these laws exist on the city level, make sure they exist on the state level. Because it's great that we have this in Seattle, no doubt. But there are plenty of Uber Eats drivers in Tacoma, in Gig Harbor, in Bremerton, Bellingham, Pasco, wherever it is in the state, who may not be able to enjoy similar protections. And so we need to see the state of Washington and our legislators stepping up and doing the same thing there.

[00:10:37] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. Well, we have a major announcement from the largest union in the state. UFCW 3000 just announced their endorsement of mayoral candidate, Katie Wilson. Why is this significant and why did they make this decision?

[00:10:55] Robert Cruickshank: This is a big deal because UFCW is one of the largest unions in terms of membership in the entire Pacific Northwest - UFCW Local 3000. They represent the grocery store workers - the checkers and baggers at your stores, among others. And so they have a huge membership. They have a major political presence here as well. They're big donors. They are able to turn out the vote for candidates. They're widely seen as one of the most influential labor unions in our region. And so for them to come out in support of Katie Wilson is a big deal for a couple reasons. One of which is it shows growing labor support for Katie Wilson. We saw a few weeks before the primary, the city workers' union - PROTEC17 - come out for her. Now, UFCW 3000 is coming out on her behalf. UFCW in particular - because they have such a large membership - that means they have significant weight on the MLK Labor Council, because representation on that body, the ability to vote for things like endorsements is weighted by the size of your union. The fact that UFCW has now officially endorsed Katie Wilson now makes it potentially possible that MLK Labor could do a dual endorsement for both Bruce Harrell, who they already endorsed way earlier in the year, and now for Katie Wilson. So UFCW coming on board makes that possible.

The other thing about this that's notable is the timing. They did the announcement just down the road from me, here in Lake City, at the site of the Fred Meyer there at Lake City Way and Northeast 130th that Kroger, the parent company, said they're going to close. Kroger says they want to close it because of crime, which is not true. Crime is down. You can even talk to the unionized workers there who say - Yes, we have a couple known shoplifters, but otherwise, it's a lot safer here than it's been in years. The reality is that Kroger is a company in the United States in the 2020s, which has a bottom line they want to maintain - not in terms of profitability, this store is profitable, but they need to show their investors and show Wall Street constant growth in profitability. And Trump's policies, especially his tariffs, have caused inflation that are eating into Kroger's profits. So if you're a company in America, how do you show corporate America, how do you show the shareholders increased profit? You fire people. And so that's what this is about - they're closing these stores to fire the 200 or so workers there. That's the backstory to UFCW endorsing Katie Wilson. They did it at that store, right in front of the store. Joe Mizrahi, who's also, of course, on the school board running for re-elect on school board, is a leader in UFCW. He spoke and introduced Katie Wilson. And they both talked about how this is a natural collaboration - between UFCW and Katie Wilson - to fight for workers and to fight for communities. Because when Kroger closes a store, it creates a food desert. Joe Mizrahi called it a "food foreclosure," which I thought was a really good insight. And Wilson herself said she's going to fight against corporate power on behalf of the communities that are impacted here. So it was a really natural collaboration and timing.

[00:13:59] Crystal Fincher: Really seems so. Now, I want to pivot a little bit. Because we also got some news from the Seattle Ethics and Election Commission this week that they're looking into some of the City of Seattle social media activity, which has taken a recent and notable turn to look like it is hyping up Bruce Harrell. Now, some people may say - Well, it's the City and Bruce Harrell is the mayor, so of course they're going to be talking about Bruce Harrell. But it does seem like here that there are many more recent posts after this election that are directly Bruce Harrell talking about his accomplishments and making it look like electioneering. And very important - it is actually unlawful for the City or any public resource to be used for a campaign purpose. So what did you see here and what comes next?

[00:14:56] Robert Cruickshank: Well, it's really notable, as you pointed out, that the City accounts that are just often talking about what some department is doing - all of a sudden, after Bruce Harrell loses the primary by nearly 10 points to Katie Wilson, start hyping up Bruce and talking a lot about Bruce Harrell, who, of course, is a candidate for reelection. You can't do that, as you said. And, in fact, you and I used to work in a mayor's office when McGinn was mayor. And I remember this vividly - when McGinn was going up for reelection in 2013, we sat and got a briefing from Seattle Ethics and Elections Commission telling us what we could and couldn't do. And one of the things that was made very clear is that while, yes, City accounts are able to talk about the work of the Mayor - the Mayor is the head of the Executive Department - you can't suddenly do it in the middle of a campaign if you haven't been doing it before. That is obvious electioneering. And that was said explicitly and specifically to us. And so - at the time I'm working in communications, I'm like - All right, wow, you know, if we haven't been regularly talking about Mike McGinn for two years from these accounts and we start doing it, that's obvious electioneering, so we can't do that. I kept that in mind. I told the people who were working with me that that's the rules. And we followed the rules because we believe in doing that. Harrell's obviously desperate. Harrell also recognizes that Katie Wilson has an excellent social media presence, is killing it on social media. People have seen her videos. Everyone talks about the pizza video she did, which is just brilliant campaigning. And I think Bruce Harrell and his team recognize that they were getting out-hustled on social media by Wilson, so they want to catch up. And they're like - Well, we have all these City resources. Why don't we use them? Well, you can't use them. That's the Seattle Ethics and Elections Commission rules, based on City law. So now there is going to be enforcement - hopefully, the Seattle Ethics and Elections Commission properly enforces this - we just talked about enforcement of City rules. They've got to enforce this and make it clear - not just to Bruce Harrell, but to everyone in City Hall - that these rules have to be respected. You don't get a pass just because you're a mayor struggling for a second term.

[00:16:58] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, absolutely. And The Burner covered this story this week. The Seattle Ethics and Elections Executive Director Wayne Barnett, told The Burner, "I'm not going to say this is a problem, but nor am I going to say it is not a problem. I will look into it." So they're doing that. But really, the big question is surrounding who's getting paid for all of this activity. As we know, it's not "interns" who handle social media. This is a profession. These are the City of Seattle - people running these social accounts are sometimes making $100,000 and more. It takes a ton of talent and expertise to do this. And so the reason why the you-can't-campaign-on-the-public-dime rule is in place, is that everybody doesn't have access to that money. This is a pool of taxpayer money that is supposed to be paying for things authorized by the Council or the City - and not going for private benefit, which is what a campaign would be. And others don't have access to that. Here in this article, Katie Wilson, who you said has been recognized for how excellent her online presence has been, say - It takes $4,000 to $5,000 a month to keep that up. People are behind that. And here in Seattle, that's making a living wage here. And so we have got to get to the bottom of this. Like you said, it is pounded into the head of everybody who works for the City - what is and is not permissible. It's so ever-present and constantly a subject of discussion. People who have not been familiar with how government operates, or maybe have not worked in government before, may not be familiar. But we can both tell you - this is not something that someone does by accident and they had no idea. This is a really big deal - people are very conscious about this.

[00:18:56] Robert Cruickshank: And rightly so - because, as you pointed out, it takes a ton of resources to do this. And if you're using City resources - if you're taking a Public Information Officer who works for a certain department, telling them produce content that features Bruce Harrell. Or even if it's a mayoral office staffer who's being told - All right, now you need to put out all these videos glorifying the boss after the primary when you weren't doing that before. You're not just violating the ethics, you're also using resources that are not available to anyone else. Because the Mayor's Office directs this. They run the executive branch - not just their own office, but all the departments. The Mayor can direct a department head to have their PIO do something - that's part of the power of being a mayor. But if you're directing them to do something that's not only unethical, but provides your campaign a real, significant financial advantage - that's a huge problem. And you're right. Anyone who works for - not just the City, but particularly in a Mayor's office - you have to attend trainings, you have to attend sessions and seminars where you are constantly being told, and properly so, what these rules are. We would follow them to the letter. Like, if I had a personal laptop and at some point I wanted to take time to go do something for the campaign, I had to mark it on my calendar that I was out of the office. I couldn't claim that time on a time card. I'd go walk out of the office, across the street to the cafe - use the public Wi-Fi. And basically, in that way, I was not using resources that no one else could use. I was maintaining the ethical standard, the legal standard, the financial standard. And we took that seriously, because we saw ourselves as public servants. And what it tells me - that Harrell's office is doing this - is they don't have that same sense of public service. They see themselves there as out for themselves, using whatever advantage they can use to get their guy reelected - that's not how you should be acting as a mayor.

[00:20:52] Crystal Fincher: Well, I want to talk about something else that happened in this past week that was both unfortunate and really unfortunately foreseeable. It's that a man was struck from behind while biking on a section of Lake Washington Boulevard where the City canceled planned safety upgrades. What happened here and why are so many people upset about it?

[00:21:16] Robert Cruickshank: Yeah, I mean, this is an awful story of a man who is regularly riding his bicycle. He's got one of those extended bikes with a cargo carrier in the back. He was coming back from a long ride. It was actually his personal record longest ride, and it was late at night. And he just tried to get home, from being in South King County, and he thought - Well, I'll just take Lake Washington Boulevard. There's not a lot of traffic on it. It's well-lit. I know it. And he was almost home and got rear-ended by a driver. Thankfully, he wasn't hurt badly - hurt a little bit, shaken up. But this is on Lake Washington Boulevard, where - if folks remember back in 2020, the road was closed entirely during the pandemic or the peak of the pandemic. So people could go out there and be safe. And families could get out of the house and do recreation safely. There was an effort to maintain that closure in recent years, and neighbors there have been very upset about this. They want to be able to drive their car anywhere they want to go. And so there is a fight over - are we keeping Lake Washington Boulevard closed or open? And the compromise that was reached, which is not one I necessarily agree with, but this is the compromise that was reached, was that - Okay, we'll open it on most weekends, but we're going to put all this safety infrastructure in place to protect people for the times that it's open. Well, guess what? Those safety measures didn't happen. They were scaled back, canceled, postponed.

And people are getting hit. This is not the first time this has happened. I was down there - my in-laws live in Mount Baker, right above Lake Washington Boulevard. So we were down there at Mount Baker Park on Father's Day. And we were just hanging out with the family, the kids are playing on the playground. And we saw this car come racing down the road with sparks underneath it. I'm like - What is going on? And we look more closely - it was dragging a bicycle. And all of a sudden, this goes from like a curiosity to fear, like - Oh my God, that's a bike. Someone got hit. And it turns out that someone had gotten hit - a 16-year-old on Lake Washington Boulevard. Thankfully, he was uninjured. He was able to get off the bike before the car collided with him. And a number of people saw this. And this is just maybe the most prominent example - because this car was racing through the neighborhood dragging the bike, creating sparks - of how unsafe Lake Washington Boulevard has become. There were a group of activists who were out on Lake Washington Boulevard just last weekend to show support for Katie Wilson, who has a long record of doing work to support making it safe for people to use our streets. That was on Lake Washington Boulevard - trying to draw attention to Mayor Harrell's constant failure to keep this street safe. And yet again, someone got hit. Thankfully, these are minor injuries so far. Is it going to take someone's death for the City and for Mayor Harrell to actually implement these very basic and simple safety precautions? Hopefully not. But that's the issue that we're facing here in a particularly important, vulnerable part of the city where the Mayor Harrell is just unwilling to do what it takes to protect basic safety.

[00:24:12] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, will be really interesting to see how this continues and if he sticks by it - because it becomes even more visible after you take action to cancel the compromise that was reached. And now it kind of puts the responsibility squarely on that office, on that decision. People know that this could have been prevented, and a real active present choice was made that makes these kinds of things possible.

Now, I want to talk about the school board a little bit here. We haven't talked that much about the school board results, but there's a lot at stake. We have the primary, now in the thick of the general election. But issues like austerity, school closures are still on the table. And there are some stark differences between the approach that different board members and candidates seem to be taking and advocating for. Where does all of this stand and what is at stake?

[00:25:14] Robert Cruickshank: Yeah. So right before the primary - on July 30th - school board director Liza Rankin put out a memo, calling for what she said is right-sizing and "strategic abandonment" of district priorities. And when she talks about right-sizing, it's very clear that this is a return to school closures. And she hasn't made this a secret. I wrote an op-ed at The Urbanist that we can link to earlier this month, in which I charted the history of what she's been saying since last fall, when the closure proposal was abandoned. She firmly believes that we have to close schools and has been consistent about that. And so this memo is very much an intent to lay out the roadmap for doing another round of mass closures, as well as what she vaguely described as "strategic abandonment" - which didn't get into specifics in her memo, but implies that the district should make other sweeping cuts to programs and services. And then she said at the end that we can't count on new money from Olympia, that we can't keep advocating for tax hikes. We just have to start cutting. Which struck me as notable, because we came very, very close earlier this year to passing a wealth tax that would generate, in the Senate Democrats proposal, $4 billion a year for public schools. So to suddenly give up now and just say - We tried. Now it's just time to get out the chainsaws and start cutting our schools. - strikes me as really wrong on any number of levels. But that is a useful thing for Director Rankin to have done because it puts out the reality of the debate - that the mass closure of 20-something schools that was proposed last year is not off the table. It's not a live proposal that anyone's actively doing at this moment, but Liza Rankin wants it brought back. And so we need to take that really seriously. And it needs to become a centerpiece of the school board elections going into the fall. Is this the direction we want for our schools? Or do we want to go through and find ways to fix the budget, stop the misspending, and go fight in Olympia for progressive taxation? That's the issue that we've got to figure out on this.

Personally, my position is I'm supporting candidates for school board who have vowed to fight this, or who already have done that. I'm supporting Sarah Clark, Joe Mizrahi, Vivian Song - I've done a little bit of work for all three of them. And I'm happy to do so because they've demonstrated to a lot of us that they're willing to fight against this. And I think people need to be able to take a look at the records and what candidates are saying about these fundamental issues. Are we going to close a bunch of schools even though it doesn't save any money? Or are we going to try a different path to get more resources to the classroom?

[00:27:53] Crystal Fincher: Now, what do you say to people who are going - Okay, well, it doesn't look like the State Legislature bailed the district out at all. We have previously talked about the state needing to take action to close the big budget gap that exists and that there's a major deficit that the district is facing. And so, is there any choice but to close schools? Is it just kind of necessary and inevitable, or are there ways around that?

[00:28:27] Robert Cruickshank: I think there are always ways around that. And I think it's important to keep in mind that if Seattle Public Schools decides to just sort of throw in the towel and start making huge cuts - that's a signal to Olympia that they don't have to do the tough political work of taxing the rich. They don't have to go down that road. And, trust me, legislators would very much prefer not to. They don't want to take on Microsoft. They don't want to take on Amazon. They don't want to take on the wealthy billionaires who are going to fight them. They would love to avoid that fight if they can. But we don't want them to.

At the same time, if you're on a school board, you have to pass a balanced budget. You have no way around that. So what can you do? Well, the reality is that in Seattle, we don't really have a good handle on how the district spends its money. There've been a number of parents and financial experts who've taken a close look at this - and see all sorts of vague references to huge pots of money being spent without any accountability. And we don't really have any sort of forensic independent audit of district spending. We don't know what money is going where. In fact, the board in recent years eliminated its budget oversight committees. Now they've restored that - one of them, at least, an ad hoc budget committee led by Sarah Clark, one of the people who I'm supporting, running for reelection - recognizing that they have to actually do that financial deep dive to see what's available. The district has been making cuts for the last three years. And people see the effect of that in their classrooms - right now, there are a number of schools across the district where kindergarten class sizes are up to 25, in some cases. Parents are trying to desperately get more teachers for their schools so they can bring these class sizes down - and that's a result of the cuts that have already happened. At some point, you have to draw the line and go to the Legislature and say - We've cut to the bone already. You can't ask us to chop off arms and legs. But if you are saying austerity is our only choice, then you're letting the Legislature off the hook - which is what they desperately want us to do.

[00:30:27] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, it really does seem like there still needs to be continual pressure, including from school board members and from local officials - they have a role in this advocacy, too. It looks like there have been differences in how different folks have approached that. This will be very interesting to see and follow. And we'll keep folks posted on school-related forums that are coming up in the general election - and also link to that op-ed that you mentioned.

Now, this week, I also wanted to talk about a specific movement with Microsoft employees that is gaining prominence and really forcing the examination of several policies. Just this past week, protesters occupied Microsoft's office in protest of the company's policies that have appeared to allow work in support of Israel's actions against Gaza and Palestinians. This led to two arrests of employees - now former employees - of Microsoft. But this has been a major movement. The protest group No Azure for Apartheid - Azure being Microsoft's primary cloud computing platform - saying that it has been used to facilitate attacks on Palestinian targets. What happened? What is Microsoft saying? And what's next?

[00:31:54] Robert Cruickshank: Yeah, you did a great job introducing this. The issue is that - according to reports by The Associated Press and The Guardian, the British publication, the Israeli government and the Israeli military are using, apparently, Microsoft's Azure cloud system to store data they gather from mass surveillance. And that protesters claim is used then by the Israeli military to target civilians in Gaza. Israeli government has pushed back, says - No, no, no, we're just cross-checking. That claim needs to be investigated a lot further from what the Israeli government is saying, because a lot of people find that hard to believe - that they're not actually using Microsoft's cloud systems to target civilians in Gaza. It seems like they are.

And so what has happened is a number of protesters, including a number of Microsoft employees - who do not want to be involved in this, they do not want their work to be used to target civilians in Gaza - are protesting. And they've been protesting over at the Microsoft headquarters campus in Redmond. The Burner - Hannah Krieg - has been over there covering this with live video that's really revealing. And earlier this week, they went into the office of Microsoft President Brad Smith to protest this. A number of arrests were made and two Microsoft employees were fired for engaging in that protest. And that's really courageous of them - to put their jobs and livelihoods on the line - because they know the importance of this work and this protest to stop Microsoft's tools from being used to further the genocide in Gaza. So hats off to these protesters - I think it's really courageous and bold of them to do this. And obviously necessary. Nobody wants their work to be used to further a genocide, to use targeting civilians. So for them to step up and do this, I think, is really a courageous move.

[00:33:36] Crystal Fincher: Yeah. And they have been taking actions. This is a continued action that has been going on and they still exist. But I do think that because of this protest movement, Microsoft has now acknowledged that they need to look into what's going on here. I think initially it looked like they were generally trying to ignore this and not acknowledge it at all. But this has shined a light on concerns, actions against what are supposed to be the terms of service that look like they've been violated. That has spurred independent media to take a look at what is happening, resulting in those reports that you talked about. That look like they've uncovered that IDF has used the Azure platform in support of their actions. And so we'll continue to see. But I do think it's important to acknowledge that some people are like - Well, you know, what's it going to accomplish, these protest movements. Whether it's protesting against this, protesting against federal actions - a lot of that, because of the light shined on that, people know where to look. And people have dug and found what they are protesting against. And forcing the company to at least acknowledge and potentially confront it, take action to end it - hopefully - because it is against the terms of services. Or reckon with what's happening here - force a public acknowledgement and a public position taking. But you can't act ignorant when it's your product that is being used.

[00:35:14] Robert Cruickshank: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And it's not easy to do this protest. It's not easy to go against your own employer. It's not easy to put your job on the line. But they did so, and they've performed an important service by doing so. But at the same time, it's a lot easier to do that protest. It's a lot easier to put your job on the line than it is to have bombs dropped on your head. It's a lot easier than watching your children starve, as is happening in Gaza. So they did something courageous. I also think they did something that is necessary. And so I'm glad that they stepped up and brought this all to light.

[00:35:46] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. And with that, we thank you for listening to Hacks & Wonks on this Friday, August 29th, 2025. The producer of Hacks & Wonks is Shannon Cheng - and please keep her in your thoughts, folks. Our insightful co-host today was chair of Sierra Club Seattle, longtime communications and political strategist Robert Cruickshank. You can find Robert on Bluesky at @robertcruickshank.com. You can follow Hacks & Wonks on Bluesky at @HacksAndWonks, and you can find me on Bluesky at @finchfrii, that's F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I. You can catch us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you prefer to get podcasts - just type "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar. Subscribe to get the full versions of our Friday week-in-review shows and our midweek show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, it means so much if you leave a review wherever you listen. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at OfficialHacksAndWonks.com.

Thanks for tuning in - and we'll talk to you next time.